Brushless Makita mod


(Griff Carpenter) #42

Sooooooo…now that you’ve done all the work, spent all the money are you ready to give away the results? Gonna share the purchase details on the PS?

Sorry, had to ask.


(Vince) #43

What’s the point in keeping secrets!

NEWSTYLE 24V 15A Dc Universal… https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CS5G8J6?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf

Now if someone wants to help figure out a way to trip feed hold if the router powers down that would be an awesome safeguard.

Before anyone goes and spends money let me setup on my modded S3 and try a really heavy adaptive with 3/8s rougher, going to see if it can handle 24k,2.3 chipload

I was eyeing this one as well and I might exchange later just for peace of mind. 24V 20A 500W Switching Power Supply Driver for CCTV Camera LED Strip AC 100-240V Input to DC 24V https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077N592WJ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_17rYBbMJPKX6Y


(Tex Lawrence) #44

@Vince.Fab

I turned the voltage trim down before I started testing. Full speed only went to 27.5, adjusted the voltage trim up until I hit 30krpm top speed. Then I adjust the router speed like normal with non contact tacho

I guess its too much to ask what voltage you adjusted your power supply to? :smiley:

There should be some voltage where the RPM stops changing as you go beyond that voltage.


(Vince) #45

@CrookedWoodTex

I’m only a welder Fabricator and usually stay very far away from wires! So I don’t really know what i’m doing as far as testing with meters go…but I have a couple electrician friends. May take a day or two for numbers. Decided better safe than sorry and let someone who knows what they are doing help out.

I didn’t want to push it farther than specs just yet.


(Brian Renstrom) #46

I’ve never seen anything official from Makita rating this one at 1.25 hp like they do for corded version. All they say is “18v” which by itself is a useless number. If it were anywhere close to 1.25 hp you’d think they would advertise it.

Vince I’m kinda wondering why you didn’t simply go to a Chinese water-cooled VFD setup. 1.5kw (2hp) for about $200 on eBay.


(Vince) #47

I saw a couple places claim the same 1.25hp but not official Makita. Reviews all said it didn’t lack any power compared to the corded version. I assumed it would probably be rated similar.

Every spindle ive seen only maxes out at 24krpm and weights quite a bit more. Its also hard to find a 65mm 1.5kw 110v er16 spindle. Even then it would be more expensive, heavier, slower, and have the same 3/8s capacity as the Makita. It will probably have better runnout but just doesn’t add up for me. Most of my parts require quite a bit of metal removal and I run near max sfm most of the time.


(Phil Thien) #48

Does the aluminum mount hold onto the plastic body okay? How about a pic of the unit mounted up in the Shapeoko?

I am probably going to do something similar with the forthcoming Dewalt.


(Griff Carpenter) #49

@cgallery Plastic body?

Interesting, I wasn’t aware of an upcoming DeWalt.


(Phil Thien) #50

Maybe I misunderstood an earlier pic, showing the inside of the Makita being plastic.

Perhaps that was just the double-insulation aspect?


(William Adams) #51

I was confused enough by that to make a post, but then corrected when I realized it was an inner sleeve — that plastic sleeve does make the thing less interesting to me, at least until I’m shown that it doesn’t interfere.


(Phil Thien) #52

Well I wouldn’t have even noticed if it hadn’t been for your post.

Look what you did!

:slight_smile:


(Vince) #53

One point I dont believe anyone has hit on.

Brushless produces much less EMI. Seems like this would be a big plus…

Currently i have to run separate power sources for my routers due to interference. For my specific goals. The ability to run two machines off one pure sine power source without interference would be ideal.


(Gerald Mackelburg) #54

Makita claims “LXT® technology delivers 380 feet of cutting performance in red oak using a 1/4" (6mm) straight bit at a 5/32" (4mm) depth with a 5.0 Ahr battery (battery not included)”. That’s 178 cubic inches (cuin). A 380 foot cut in 60 minutes (76 inch/min feed rate), equates to a 2.967 cuin/minute material removal rate (MRR). A unit horsepower of 30 Watt (W)/cuin/min would require 30 * 2.967 = 89 W at the cutter.

The 5 Ahr (Amp-hour) battery should provide 0.5 Amps (A) for 10 hours. Assuming (overly optimistically) that it can provide 5 A for 1 hour and is 100% efficient, the router’s power consumption would be 18 Volts * 5 A = 90 W for the duration of the 380-foot slot cut. Slowing down the feed rate would increase efficiency by reducing both router armature and battery heating. Reducing the material’s unit horsepower from 30 to 25 W/cuin/min would allow for an 85% overall efficiency.

Note that 90 W is only 0.12 HP which justifies the much smaller armature (hence available torque and power) than the “1.25 HP” Makita 0701 router. Also note that 1.25 HP at 30,000 RPM and a 0.25 inch endmill would equate to 21 pounds of force (lbf) on the cutter and the Shapeoko, which can only proved 18 lbf on the X-Axis – right? So, a 1.25 HP router should be more than adequate for the Shapeoko.

IMO if a DC power supply is used to power the XTR01Z rather than a battery, it’s voltage should match that of the battery (18 V). A lower voltage will limit the router’s maximum speed and a higher voltage will stress the drive electronics without offering any performance advantage. Also, any motor’s power output is proportional to the product of its speed and torque (Power [HP] = Torque [ft-lbf] * Speed [RPM] / 5252). Both the XTR01Z and 0701 have the same speed ranges. So, since XTR01Z’s armature is much smaller than the 0701’s, it’s likely much more limited in torque (hence power) output than the 0701.

Although a brushless router does eliminate the need for brushes, could provide reduced EMI, and should provide better armature heat transfer/sinking, is it worth the expense, hassle, uncertainty, and reduced power availability from XTR01Z’s implementation? IMO Vince’s demonstrated success with the 0701 suggests that it is currently the best choice for use with the Shapeokos.


(William Adams) #55

Yeah, this raises the questions — what features would be desirable for a better spindle? My wish list:

  • narrower than 65mm
  • larger collet (ER-20 or something up to 1/2")
  • brushless

Things we’d want to keep:

  • 110V (separate power supply might be a necessary evil)
  • air cooled
  • easily changed bearings housed in metal

(Gerald Mackelburg) #56

Why <65 mm diameter? Larger diameters provide more heatsink surface area.

1/2" collet would reduce force on Shapeoko (a good thing).

Brushless - could facilitate air cooling (via heatsink/fins, etc.) since the armature is on the outside of the motor. Higher speeds would also reduce torque and hence armature heating (from IR losses) to reduce heat generation. At such low required power outpiut levels and with 80-85% efficiency, there isn’t that much heat generated by the motor anyway.

Good cooling and reduced torque (via increased speed) would increase bearing life.


(Griff Carpenter) #57

@gmack ok, this is good stuff, thank you.

I jumped into this looking for more rpm and eliminating brushes.

Now that @Vince.Fab has pointed me to a suitable power supply I’m ready to see what happens when the pedal hits the metal. Particularly with my shiny new 3/8” aluminum shredder! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


(Gerald Mackelburg) #58

Do you have manufacturer speed and feed recommendations for that shredder with aluminum?


(William Adams) #59

I want a smaller diameter to reduce lever effects.


(Griff Carpenter) #60

Lakeside is the supplier, I have a quarter inch and 3/8 inch. I will be following @Vince.Fab speeds/feeds suggestions in various posts on this forum, at reduced rates, feel my way in.

One of my initial attractions to the brushless Makita was the inclusion of a 3/8” collet and thus the implication that the router can supply sufficient grunt to spin larger diameter mills.

My power supply arrived damaged the other day, another on the way.


(Griff Carpenter) #61

@Vince.Fab so, I connect red and black to the power supply. What about the yellow? Just leave it there?