SuperPID failure, anybody else experienced this?


(Griff Carpenter) #1

Hey all, I was facing some Al yesterday when my DW611 suddenly accelerated to full speed which somehow crashed the 1 1/2 inch flycutter into the workpiece causing a bit of damage. I hit the E stop as soon as I heard the router spool up but not fast enough.

Anyway, I now find that the on/off switch I have wired into the SuperPID has no effect. The router comes on at full speed immediately when plugged in. The switch built into the router works. As you might imagine, the speed pot for the Super PID has no effect either.

I’ve messaged the SuperPID folks. Just thought I’d ask here.


(Dan Nelson) #2

Check to see if the optical sensor on your router has come loose or is not connected properly. If the sensor cannot sense the speed of the router it will continue to speed up trying to get to the set speed. I had this happen. Turn it on without the “run” switch turned on and manually turn the router, you’ll see on the SuperPID screen if it’s working.

Dan


(Dan Nelson) #3

Oh and turn off mains power when you do this obviously.

My SuperPID has been bulletproof in the year or so that I’ve had it, with the exception of when I’ve done something wrong:slight_smile:

Dan


(Griff Carpenter) #4

Hey Dan, yeah, since the failure I’ve pulled the sensor, cleaned, and reset.

Now, the router doesn’t spool up upon plug in. It doesn’t spool up at all. The on/off switch in the SP circuit does sort of work now. When OFF, shows the expected “many bars” “few bars” when the spindle is turned manually, but when ON, I get continuous START, FAILED TO START messages.

Will try my spare router tomorrow.


(Dan Nelson) #5

Huhm, that’s odd, yea maybe some issue with the router itself and since you have a spare that’s a good way to start. When mine croaked the sensor had come loose and was intermittently working as it slid in/out of the tube. It also rubbed a bit of the white paint off my commutator, so while I had it apart I repainted. I only know when it lost optical contact it took off at full speed trying to catch up with itself. You already know this, but check all connections and such that you made during initial install, things come loose.

A couple years ago I did an ECU update on one of my motorcycles (Yamaha R6). I had the ECU reflashed, added an aftermarket fuel control module, did a full exhaust mod, intake mods, ditched all the emissions junk, etc… It was a real beast! I was working with the guy who did the ECU flash to get my fuel maps all sorted out and all of the sudden one day, in heavy traffic of course, the bike just quit. Pushed it off to the side of the road, cycled the ignition, it started right up. This happened several more times, to the point that I didn’t want to ride it. The guy working with me on the ECU suggested I remove the O2 sensor and autotune module from my bike. I did so and never had another problem. Looking at the removed sensor and autotune module a few days later I noticed one wire wasn’t properly secured to the module(it’s like 6 wires into terminals and I didn’t tighten one). So basically I’d be blasting down the road, bike would vibrate a bit, and quit. I had sworn up and down that the install was good and there must be something else wrong with the map or ECU flash, I had to eat crow on that one. As has been said before, “Learning has occurred!”

Dan


(Griff Carpenter) #6

I hear you. I looked pretty hard at the connections, no obvious issues.

BTW, the router does work when connected to a separate circuit. And, as you can see from the pic above, at an insane 37,900 rpm!! Can you imagine that big old 1 1/2” flycutter spinning that fast? Scary stuff.

I’ve pulled it from the machine for now. I’ve been wanting to redo the case and mount for a while now. This is a good opportunity. I’ve got a Prusa Mk3 3D printer on the way, one of its first jobs may be a SuperPID case,


(Nick Nafsinger) #7

A little late here, but curious if you heard anything from SuperPID about this? Reason I ask, I just did the exact same thing. Dropped the facing mill in a bit to quick, it stalled the Router, the router then took off at full speed (20k). Now it won’t turn on or off with the PID, and neither the Pot or Mach have any effect on speed. The speed readout does work on the PID, so I’m assuming the optical pickup is working as it should…

Nick


(Dan Nelson) #8

I’m not looking mine at the moment, but isn’t there a fuse on the SuperPID board?

Dan


(Griff Carpenter) #9

My SPID is, um, on hiatus right now.

I went through a bit of back and forth via email with their support person. They were having trouble understanding the photos I sent them showing that the sensor was working fine. It got to the point where I felt they assumed me to be stupid. Then a week or so of no contact from them, then some suggestions for parts.

I put the SPID and the router in a drawer and now run most jobs at 1 on the speed dial of a new router.

Some day I might try again but too many other things to do now.

Hope you have better luck!


(Phil Thien) #10

I’m going to guess that something is getting fried on the board, as the stalled router is sucking locked rotor amps for a while.

Has anyone checked their fuse?


(Griff Carpenter) #11

Yep, first thing I checked.

This is my last suggestion from SuperPID. I have not yet acted on it.

“NSo very sorry for the delay in responding. We’ve had internet access issues here past week, still ongoing unfortunately.

Possibility that the triac on Super-PID may have blown during the tool jam. It is very rare for triac to blow and would only occur in extreme case. Let’s test the triac;

TEST TRIAC; If you leave the 5 volts OFF (no display) and turn on the AC mains does the router continue to run at full speed?

If the router is running with 5 volts off then most likely Super-PID has a blown triac.

May (hopefully) just be the triac blown. Although could also potentially blow the MOV (black round disc component next to triac), and the opto-couplers (black and/or white chip thingys on opposite of board).

Most likely the next step from here is to replace the triac. To replace the triac it is best/easiest to cut each leg individually then remove each leg part and then unsolder clean the PCB etc. Pre-bend the new triac legs (may need some more heatsink compound added) and screw down the triac tightly first, before lastly soldering in the new triac.

Large electronics stores (Mouser, DigiKey) should have in stock;

BTA26-800CWRG – ST Micro – triac

If you would like us to send you a new triac please advise your shipping address. Shipping from here takes about 7-14 days.

Please let me know how it all goes.

Thank you for all your help.

Best regards, jen”


(Craig) #12

I experienced something similar with our Super PID. On/off switch was intermittent, speed was random, and I couldn’t repeat the problem when I tried. Tore everything down and found the spade lugs were loose when bypassing the speed control in the router, soldered, heat shrink, touched up white on Spindle, cleaned sensor, reassembled, no issues since.


(Nick Nafsinger) #13

Well, as it happens I did I did this exact same thing about 5 years ago also. At the time I had a spare SPID in the box awaiting a second build, a build that has yet to happen… Back then I just swapped the SPID and moved on. I did however order a replacement TRIAC, just never bothered installing it.

Found the old board, put a new TRIAC on it, and it works good as new.

The part number they provided is what I used, Mouser has them for $4.50 each. Takes about 10 minutes to swap em, after the board is out of the case.

Nick


(Nick Nafsinger) #14

OH, one last thing. Both times I’ve done this, neither time the fuse blew. Its currently a 15A 250V Slowblow. I’m tempted to change it out with a fast acting.

Nick


(Griff Carpenter) #15

Thanks @Nicknaf, you’ve inspired me to order a triac :smiley:.

Plus I’ll be cutting my first brass soon so I’ll need better rpm control.


(mikep) #16

I’ve been cutting brass without anything but the routers own controls, and it works just fine.


(Griff Carpenter) #17

Damn, you’ve just un-justified my logic for spending more money on something I probably don’t need anyway. Thanks @mikep! :crazy_face: