1/16" taper endmill for roughing?

Hey All,

Context:
I’ve been having a significant number of issues roughing with my chip cutter 1/16" endmill in my inlays today. I’ve broken 2 of my 1/16" chip breaker kyocera endmills.

Baseline parameters - I’ve used these for a few batches and not had issues
Material: Maple Facegrain
Form of engagement: full width slotting
DoC: 2.25mm
RPM 22k
Feed: 1300mm/min
Plunge: 480mm/min

I kinda need the resolution a 1/16" offers. I’ve tried normal Kyocera 1/16" 2-flute and I gave up on those a while ago. Since then, I switched to these chip breaker kyocera 1/16", and I’ve done okay until today where I’ve suddenly broken 2 in this one job.

After breaking those 2 chipbreaker endmills, I’m down to my last one so i’ve dropped my params to the following:

Currently running:
Material: Maple Facegrain
Form of engagement: full width slotting
DoC: 2.25mm
RPM 20k
Feed: 1000mm/min
Plunge: 150mm/min

Questions:

  • Anyone here had success with some kind of variant of tapered 1/16" for roughing passes to a DoC of 2.25mm? Taper angle should be shallower than my 30degree vbit. 2.25 allow me to do the roughing in 2 passes (increasing the number of passes above 2 is not going to work for me)
  • Know of any tapered 1/16" with a flat end rather than ballnose?

UPDATE: My “Currently running” setup above just failed now. No more endmills left to play with. Time for a better alternative

1 Like

I’ve been testing these in aluminum and been pretty impressed by their strength: Carbide 4 Flute Tapered 3D CNC Carving Tools 1/8 in. Shank
(So impressed that I ordered 10 more of them yesterday)

As far as square tapered endmills, they exist if you look hard enough. I’ll try to find the a link to the one I picked up on Amazon.

Nice! Are you using a Shapeoko 5?

Yeah, do let me know if you find the flat end one too!

I found some flat-head taper ones but they are 4-flutes. I expect 2-flute is what I need considering it’s cutting wood

suddenly occurred to me that I might suddenly be seeing these results because I cut this 25mm thick section of maple from a 70mm thick stock and perhaps the moisture content is higher than i’ve usually been encountering the past few weeks, where i’ve been using straight up 25mm stock - the increased moisture causing the fibers not to shear properly/stick to the endmill.

I think this somewhat goes to explain what i’ve experienced today

Nevertheless, I expect this taper alternative to be more reliable going forward.

I think I’ve found something I can use (I normally import from America but I’m from the UK so this works)!

1 Like

@HeuristicBishop - did you manage to find the square tapered endmills you bought before? I’d like to check out what you got too since you had experience with it

I couldn’t find the original source, they’re import for sure though. They are also 4 flute.
Most of the really small tapes I’ve seen are 4 flute, I imagine because the core can be thicker and provide a more rigid tool compared to 2 flute :thinking:

The two flute you linked is interesting and probably worth a shot.
Just note that it’s for steel so the edge probably won’t be as sharp as one for wood or non-ferrous metals. The geometry is probably also less than ideal. I’d expect a bit more tear out and maybe some additional heat in the cut compared to a wood specific tool (but that’s just me guessing, end of the day carbide is going to eat whatever you throw at it :slightly_smiling_face:)

For another very highly regarded manufacturer (US again, not sure what shipping and such looks like to you) have a look at Cadence mfg. They have been well respected by the wood working folks for as long as they’ve been around. Here’s a link to their tapered ball

If you do end up getting anything from cadence, check out their other tools as well. I think they were the first to really popularize the downcut v which gets rave reviews from carving folks.

Thanks!

Well, I hope it works because I’m at my witts end with 1/16" endmills now and it’s my final hope. After that, there’s no other 1/16" variants I can think of that could possibly do what I need.

What are your thoughts on using such a tapered ballnose for full with slotting to 2.25mm, as opposed to a square end tapered endmill? I’ve ordered a both variants and am gonna give both a test but wondering what your opinion may be on it.

Though it doesn’t leave as clean a bottom to the cut (i don’t mind coz i have to run a cleanup pass afterward anyway which i can use a normal 1/16" for), think they’re any good for this light DoC level of roughing?

1/16" bits simply aren’t very strong - they can break off just accidentally dropping onto a concrete floor. And generally are not considered for any kind of ‘roughing’ toolpaths. Taking multiple, shallower passes, especially in hardwood, would be the usual strategy. However, I have found that the stubby(1/4") cutter length 1/16" bits to be able to handle significantly better than the standard 1/2" long ones.

I did buy a bunch of stubby ones in the past when i had my shapeoko pro to test for that reason (I’ve been contending with this for a very long time). However, i’ve not tested them on my shapeoko 5. I should try that…

What kind of params have you run with your stubby ones?

I haven’t tried mine in much hardwood yet - just 1/4" plywood. Found it could easily handle double of what a standard 1/2" one would break off at.

Usual preface, I’m with PreciseBits so while I try to only post general information take everything I say with the understanding that I have a bias.

First obvious thing. When you say you switched to a “chip breaker” do you mean that you you are using a regular mill with a chip breaking flute or a chip breaker router intended for composites? Unfortunately they both use the term “chip breaker”. The first should be fine but the chip breaker routers are a grinding not cutting tool and have a bunch of issues cutting wood. I don’t have an easy pic for a chip breaking standard mill but this is what a chip breaker router looks like:

That aside, unless you are using a tool with a VERY long length of cut you shouldn’t be having issues with the original numbers. You chipload works out to 0.025mm. We regularly start people out at over double that in 0.0625" tool in domestic hardwoods. That makes me think that you either have a hold down issue or a runout problem that is changing your effective chipload. How are you holding down the material and do you know what your runout is?

Generally speaking for tapered tools you have a handful of us that make them for soft media and a few companies that make them for mold making. Those of us that make them as finishing tools usually only end up making the ball tiped versions. The biggest supplier I know of for the mold making versions is Award Cutter. They have a ton of options by different angles. Just keep in mind that as Tyler indicated the mold making ones are most likely designed for metal. So they will have “blunter” edge and probably leave leave a worse finish in wood. Also watch your angles as you can end up greatly increasing you cutting forces as the top of the cut is a larger diameter.

Hope that’s useful. Let me know if there’s something I can help with.

2 Likes

What are the rough params you use for your stubby in plywood (just so i have some context)?

Looking back at a project file in which I had the 1/16" stubby doing slot cutting, I was pushing it through the plywood at 2000mm/min & 2mmDoC. Plywood was 5mm. I probably could have pushed it harder but I was wanting more precision with the cuts & doing multiple passes. A couple times a cutout piece came loose & stalled the CNC movement which then sent the bit off full depth thru the plywood until I could hit the Stop button - but it didn’t break off like my 1/2" long bits did.

1 Like

@TDA - you are the perfect person for me to talk to on my chipbreaker failures!

I have the shapeoko 5 (set up in November 2025) with a water-cooled 2.2kw 80mm spindle.

1. My Chipbreaker bit
This is the chipbreaker 1/16" I have been using. Mostly was fine but then this one piece of maple yesterday took out 3 of them out over 30 minutes of toolpath operation (2 of which were brand-new and unused):

2. My Clamping Setup:

This is how my setup looked when my first 1/16" chipbreaker endmill broke:
2x Lateral Clamps
3x Vertical Clamps

This is how my setup looked when my second and third 1/16" chipbreakers endmills broke:
2x Lateral Clamps
6x Vertical clamps
I noticed the browning of the bottom end of one of the broken endmill

3. Runout:
Regarding runout, I have no idea what it is tbh. I did kinda notice a little bit of a inconsistent ringing of the spindle at one point yesterday, but I did not think much of it and I really couldn’t tell you more about it than that as i didn’t really fully try to internalise this and understand more about it. Just a random tip-bit of info. :frowning:

4. Questions:
@TDA

  • What is your opinion on using a normal taper ballnose for roughing 2.25mm stepdowns, like this one?: [Taper Ballnose I’ve bought] I do a cleanup pass afterward anyway so i don’t mind the messier bottom, but would you say it can consistently do this?
  • Is there such a thing as a 'stubby chipbreaker 1/16" ’ at all, or just ones that are shorter than the one i’ve linked above that i was using? lol

How wide & deep is the slot design?

@Chaotica
Smallest is ~2.6mm wide. The slot is 4.5mm deep.

Probably >50% of the time it’s slot cutting, and the other <50% its half-width cutting.

Stubby 1/16" endmills
The fact you have run those stubby’s at 2000mm/min and 2mmDoc is cool. I could see myself doing the same but dropping to 1000-1300mm/min, 2.25mm DoC or something. These are the stubby’s I got left over from my past attempts using them [Stubby I have here]

Yeah, that’s a chip breaker router designed for cutting FR4 (glass loaded PPO). They can work in other material but they are designed as a grinding tool. The standard design for those is a 5 flute at 0.0625". That’s part of the problem and why the tool is brown on the end. It’s burning the material.

Your hold down should be good for this type of cut.

Going to jump to runout for a second as it’s most likely related to the failure of this tool and likely why you were having issues with the standard mills.

Have to preface that with chipload though. Chipload is probably the most important factor in milling and half of what all feeds and speeds are trying to get to. The very simplified version of it is how wide a cut you are taking per flute. Or a sometimes easier way to think of it is that it’s how far “forward” the tool moves in one flute rotation. There’s a minimum needed for each tool geometry to actually cut a chip and not rub. Chipload along with the stepover and pass depth determine the cutting forces (for a given material).

Runout is basically how much the tool is “wobbling” or spinning off the central axis of the spindle. It directly effects the chipload because as the tool “wobbles” back and forth while it’s spinning it’s moving in and out of the cutting direction. What this functionally means is that for at least part of the cut you are cutting your chipload plus your runout AND your chipload minus your runout.

So let’s use an example of a 2 flute cutter going 1000mm/m at 20K RPM. That works out to a 0.025mm chipload (feed / RPM / flutes). Now let’s assume that we have 0.02mm of runout. What that would mean is that for the programed 0.025mm chipload (1000mm/m) it will actually cut 0.045mm on one flute and 0.005mm on the other (in the worst case, or for at least part of the cut). This mean that with your programed 1000mm/m cut you are effectively cutting 1800mm/m AND 200mm/m. This will be true until your runout is equal or great to your chipload * (flutes -1). After that your combined chipload will be cut on a single flute. Additional to that in a plunge you will take up to your entire runout as your chipload even if it’s greater than your combined chipload.

I think that this might be your issue. Usually most of the runout is in the collets and they are a consumable. So as they wear they get worse which starts to effect the cut. Don’t know what kind of collet you have but if you are going to be working with small tools (especially slotting with small tools) it would be worth getting a graded collet and potentially the tools required to check your runout.

One quick test you can run that doesn’t require any tools. Put a tool in the spindle/router and power it on and off. As it spins down watch the tool. If you can SEE it wobble you have at least 0.002" (0.050mm) of runout (with normal eyesight).

A tapered 0.0625" tool is a lot stronger. However, you are just putting an expensive band-aid on the problem. In addition if runout is the issue you are going to be dealing with a lot of other issues with cut quality and tool life. The taper also make the diameter increase the deeper it cuts and that will increase the cutting forces.

If you want a band-aid solution that’s cheaper you can just cut your pass depth down. It’s the cutting forces that break tooling and cutting force is more or less cubic material removed per flute (although the direction of the forces can change). So if you cut your pass depth in half you’ll functionally half your cutting forces regardless of how much of it is from runout and it’s effects.

Not really, The chip breaker routers were designed to cut through as many PCBs as possible at a time. So most of them are the same length of cut. There are lots of “standard” length tooling in normal end-mills (e.g. Stub 1.5x, Standard 2-4x, deep cutting 5+x).

Let me know if I missed something or you want more information.

3 Likes

I would recommend trying the Spetool 1/16" stubby bits that are 1/4" cutting length for wood. I’ve been quite pleased with them so far.

1 Like

This is great information @TDA ; I really appreciate some of these intricacies being explained surrounding an issue I’m actively experiencing! I’m gonna reread this to let it marinate a bit more in my mind

1. Chipbreaker Endmill:
Oh man, I had no idea this was the variant for PCB’s! Kyocera do have another variant that was very clearly for PCB’s so I thought I was being super clever for picking the right one designed for cutting wood, but I was wrong!

I’m trying to get the equivalent of this but for the 1/16", for clarity - [Just an example of what i’m talking about]

1a. Questions:

  • Do you have any examples you can link me to that are ACTUAL woodcutting roughing 1/16" endmills I could try buying? Clearly, I have no idea what I’m looking for in that regard.
  • Does that mean my 1/8" variants I also bought at the time and have use fine are the wrong type too? [My 1/8" variant chipbreaker]
    • Since you mention this, the 1/8" chipbreaker SQUEAALLLSS when I cut. Maybe this is why…

2. Runout (Collet):
Collets are technically consumables? Interesting! The ER-20 collet for the 1/16" came with my purchase of the Carbide3D 80mm spindle (i finally got started using the CNC around mid-December until now, so it’s been used at most in the region of 10’s of hours so far.

I will consider the purchase of collets in the future from a reputable source when I notice anything

3. Expensive Bandaid:
I am at a point of ‘please, make this stop’ and ‘please be repeatable’, but being 100% reluctant to reduce the DoC because inlays already take forever and I don’t want to do more than 2 passes. anything more is not going to work for me :rofl:. In many parts of life, I compromise but this one i feel pretty passionate about and am willing to pay more for a tool for that privilege.

If that mean I throw money at the problem and buy the taper ballnose (like i have already), I’ll do it. Any and every option at my disposal I am willing to throw money at to test if it works

I will test out my SpeTool 1/16" stubby’s I have from the past out asap to see if this will work this time now i have the shapeoko 5 instead of the Pro.

3a. Questions:

  • To clarify, you do say this will work reliably as a solution at a stepdown of 2.25mm even though it is a more expensive and desperate approach, right? Like, I can do this and it will do what i need repeatably and reliably?

Awesome - those are the exact same ones I have bought previously and have kicking about. I will give these another chance now I have the Shapeoko 5 instead of the Pro! Thanks!