block the tube to your shop vac set up and see what it does… again i am missing your point. My point is a properly designed high cfm dust collection system doesnt hurt. That is all.
If I am wrong, it leaves me wondering why so many large scale cnc routers have an appropriate sized 4" dust boot running to a true dust collection system… something about finding that balance between static pressure and air flow which there are hundreds of charts on if you google it and has been discussed on internet forums for years.
My point about the high CFM is that you also need a good filter. I did not check the specs of a Makita, Flex or the Festool but it cannot be as high as a larger DC. Some of the folks on this forum have found out the hard way that ineffective dust collection can serious consequences. If you are going to pursue this hobby you should be serious about dust collection. The smaller units have HEPA filters and that is good but they do not have the CFM that a 4" DC has. You have to make an evaluation of your budget and goals and buy what you think is the best. But do not fall prey to false economy. Yes a larger system has better dust collection and costs more but what is your and your family’s health worth?
I do woodworking almost full time and I take dust collection seriously. You should take it seriously as well especially if you are dealing with tropical hardwoods or exotics. Some are even allergic to domestic hardwoods and pine. Just be kind to your lungs they have to last a lifetime. So don’t make a judgement on the price, make a judgement on the effectiveness.
If your only dust collection is a shop vac then you are spraying fine dust all over your workshop and you are breathing it in.
If you worry about fine dust in the air then you really should invest in a shop air filter unit along with a dust collector even a good dust collector can allow fine dust to escape at times I run a duct collector plus a shop air filter and when a job is done I have no fine dust at all in the air, and if you are really going to be safe you should also wear a respirator or at least a dust mask.
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Griff
(Well crap, my hypometric precursor device is blown…)
24
The Makita 4710 has a HEPA filter option that says “Each filter comes with its own certificate of efficiency confirming it is rated at 99.995% - 99.999% efficient down to 0.3 microns.” The significantly more expensive, power consuming, noisier, and inferior (for this application) Oneida Mini-Gorrilla claims “3rd Party tested HEPA media - 99.97% efficiency at 0.3 microns”. But I do agree with you and Bill Pentz that dust is a potentially serious health issue, but it’s about a lot more than CFMs and shop air filters are generally counterproductive.
I have the Fein Turbo 1 with a Dust Deputy on a 5 gallon bucket inline and I have been extremely happy with it for a couple years now. I don’t have it in an enclosure, but it’s pretty quiet on its own. FWIW, I originally had a Rigid 16 gallon SNR(whatever that means) and it blew its guts out after around 10 hours, and was never quiet. Other folks have used them for a long time and been quite happy though, so maybe I got one that was made on a Friday after lunch at the bar? I’m sure if you search long enough you’ll find people unhappy with their Feins, Festools, Hoover’s and Kirby’s, haha!!!
Sorry to change the topic, some good points being made here. I opted for the flex vac. Mainly for the specs, price, the claim that they make parts for the festool, and that it will fit in my current enclosure for my previous shop vac. Im running a dust deputy as well.
With that being said its not too late to cancel the purchase and getting a real dust collector is something I’ve been thinking about after reading your posts.
Two biggest drawbacks for me are size & noise.
Noise is a big concern as im running this out of my garage and want to keep the neighbors happy.
As we all know many projects can take 6 hrs+ to machine. Also it’s nice to work with the garage door open when weather permits and keep the noise level down to work on other projects without hearing protection.
I will say I do have dust all over the garage, which I do blow out every couple weeks. This could be from other tools as well though. I do have a WEN air filter from amazon but not sure how much it really helps. (650sq ft space). I do have 2 blast gates running from the dust deputy, 2" PVC, one dedicated to the machine and the other opened for my table saw / orbital sander when needed. After the 10-15’ of vacuum hose and suction for my sander/table saw being split between two blast gates im sure the efficiency is way below what it should be. Makes me wonder if a 150cfm vac is enough or if its time to step it up.
If there are any recommendations to a “quiet” dust collector, or one that won’t vibrate the walls of the house, I am all ears. Till then I’ll keep looking at YouTube, but honestly I value users opinions on here more than videos as many of us are doing very similar work. Thanks for all the great input.
That makes a lot of sense to me (even with a Makita), especially with the Dust Deputy to keep the bags and filters clean! You certainly have plenty of CFMs and static pressure for the application. Unlike dust collectors, you can also run long, flexible, and small diameter hoses for convenience and noise mitigation without significant loses in performance because of the lower flow and higher static pressure.
The point I was trying to make is that shop (and other) vacuums can be at least (if not more) effective as dust collectors for Shapeoko dust collection if used properly. The use of an effective cyclone separator like the Dust Deputy mitigates some of their inconvenience by helping to keep their relatively small and expensive bags and filters clean. The efficacy of either type is likely more determined by how it’s used than anything else.
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Griff
(Well crap, my hypometric precursor device is blown…)
31
I’m in the same boat as you, including the WEN. Dusty garage.
I have an old Porter Cable 1HP DC, 4” hose. Everything in my “shop” is on wheels so hard DC install with gates difficult to do. Instead, I have short sections of 4” flex attached to table saw, band saw, router table and chopsaw that enable quick connect to my DC. I can only use one tool at a time so…
INMHO most of my fine dust problem originates from sanding. First I built a sanding station attached to the DC, placed under the WEN. Used a DeWalt orbital sander with self contained dust collection. Wore a respirator. Over time, less dust settling in the shop but still a problem.
Lots of research, bit the bullet and bought a Festool CT Midi and a RTS 400 sander. Added bonus, the Festool hose fits the DeWalt sander, no adapter needed. Still do most of my sanding under the WEN, only wear the respirator when sanding, cutting MDF.
Now, I blow out the garage once a month instead of weekly. Oh, and WEN filter cleaning/replacement significantly reduced. Your mileage may vary.
Finally, I still have a smaller shop vac in a 3/4” plywood box across my garage as my primary dust control for my enclosed XL. It responds to “Alexa” . And it doubles as my general cleanup vac, simply lift the 35’ hose off the ceiling brackets and I can get to every corner.
I completely agree with you that a proper shop vac set up will be as effective if not more for a machine the size of a shapeoko. I apologize as I see how my comment about cfm could be taken as an argument against using a shopvac for a shapeoko.
I would look into a proper filter for the Wen unit, I imagine it was just like my Jet AFS-1000 that came with less than stellar filters that blew the ultra fine dust all around my shop. Switched the inner pocket filter to a wynn environmental hepa grade and the fine dust settling was cut by a huge amount.
edit: I also mounted the overhead air filtration unit on the far wall of my garage shop at the ceiling drawing air from the garage door side and spitting it back towards the back wall. Even when turned on the lowest setting I can feel the draft created that pushes all the air in my shop around in a circle. I did that because I read somewhere that proper placement of the unit is key for getting the most benefit from it. Seems to work as I rarely have to “blow out” my shop. But I also tend to take the worst offending tools outside to the driveway if I don’t have a proper way set up to catch the dust and chips.
@Griff, do you have any issues with noise from machinery causing issues with your voice commands? I am very interested in getting some smart outlets to work with my device.
Griff
(Well crap, my hypometric precursor device is blown…)
34
Yes, my neighbor sometimes wonders why I’m yelling at Alexa, lol.
But, considering she is listening via my Sonos One, usually playing Classic rock, she hears better then you might think. If I’m more then 5’ away I don’t even try when stuff is running.
Rigid is backed by lifetime warranty on their shop vacs, have you reached out so at least after you get a different dust collection setup for machine you’ll still have a shop vac handy at no extra cost? They are really good on their warranties… unless of course you were running it with mdf, no filter bag or dust separator/ cyclone… then I’m assuming the motor burnt out because it couldn’t breath with too much finite dust clogging the motor, causing to overheat and in turn fail.
Picked the rigid up at a garage sale years back, so I imagine im out of luck in regards to the warranty.
I run it with a dust deputy & 5 gal container, and the filter was clean. However it and the enclosure I keep it in are covered in a blackish dust, and I’m seeing a good amount of this dust near the impeller wheel (I think?) Mounted on top of the vacuum as well. Thinking I may need to improve the intake size on the enclosure as well as add a bag to the new setup to catch any dust that gets past the cyclone
Good question on these lifetime warranties if they are asking for registration, sales receipt or just the fact that it is a Rigid, they will honor it. I have an old and dead Rigid I purchased years ago biut I never returned it, it is in a corner expecting I was going to fix it one day and not thinking about the warranty.
@mhoffman8727 & @luc.onthego
So I think RIGID is taking their lifetime warranty serious. W/out registration. When I purchased mine there was not an option to even purchase an extended warranty. Sales associate was confused. Lol
. And it doubles as my general cleanup vac, simply lift the 35’ hose off the ceiling brackets and I can get to every corner.