I haven’t had the Pro for very long but what I do have is a recurring issue that I cannot figure out.
I haven’t changed any settings or set zero’s or anything manually since I started. I rely on the bitzero because right now I am doing fairly small pieces, so I plop the piece on the board, secure it and run the probe.
This is the problem. I would say that nearly 40% of the time my projects start at least 6mm above the actual piece. I then have to stop the job and start all over. It’s gotten to the point where I check the position with rapid position. X-Y and then the rapid Z+6, after probing and moving the spindle somewhere else to double check but even then, sometimes, but only sometimes, it still hovers over the piece.
My process is simple.
Move spindle to general area of the bottom left of the piece.
Place BitZero in bottom left corner.
Attach BitZero magnet to collet nut
Jog machine so the bit is in the center and inside the BitZero hole.
Click probe, select Bitzero 2, select all (the first one).
Set Zero, Press Done (no changes)
I remove the magnet from the collet and move the bitZero to a position on the side of the table making sure the Magnet is not and has not touched anything else.
Load and run, or run a previously loaded job.
I am not sure what I could be doing wrong?
It’s worth noting that every single time the numbers in the set zero section XYZ are the same. I think 10,10,19 but not sure. I am not well versed enough with XYZ yet, I know what they mean, how it works but it’s not something I would notice if I was doing something wrong.
Like for example, when I rapid my machine to the very front left, I get negative numbers like -117 and the initialized home position is in the 700’s. Not sure if that’s part of the issue or it’s normal or…
Please provide a step-by-step example, including files, screengrabs, and all other documentation showing how the incorrect positioning is arrived at.
A beginning to end video would be very helpful.
I’ve done this hundreds if not thousands of times, and the only times it has been off is when I’ve made an error or something has gone wrong mechanically. One the support queue, we’ve had folks send in such files and instructions and it simply hasn’t been possible for us to duplicate it save on very rare occasions when there was a program bug (which was then promptly fixed) — if you are encountering a bug, we need for it to be documented so that we can fix it.
This right there: the probing operation itself sets the zeroes for you, so you shouldn’t (re)set zeroes manually from the menu after probing, or the machine will take the “parking position where it left things just after probing”, as the zeroes position. Or maybe I misunderstood the steps you are taking, in which case ignore this comment…
Gerry, I may have on occasion, not always, but the bitsetter always checks it. I rarely shut down the machine, just leave it on. It’s a bad habit I know.
Will, before I do that, I want to rule out user error. I am assuming it’s me and something simple.
Julien. I do the exact same thing every single time as far as steps, so if there were an error on my part in procedure, it would never work and I have a nice piece today that says otherwise (lol). I understand what you are saying, but the page pops up after probe, I just press done.
I am now wondering based on Gerry, that it’s something to do with me not starting the probing with the bit I am going to start the job with? I do sometimes end a job, then later, like sometimes even the next day, probe before changing the bit if needed. Some of my projects start with a 1/4 and end with a 1/8th. I don’t (always) change out the bit in between or before starting the next job. I let the program tell me to change bits. Thought that is how it is supposed to be.
I was under the assumption that the probing is for the xyz zeros and the bitsetter takes care of the “new” zero when compensating for the bit.
The big question is then, do you always (and I mean ALWAYS) either use the Change Tool button or follow the tool change prompts, and never (EVER) just swap out the tool without telling CM, in the heat of the moment?
Absolutely, and life is all good until you deviate from the rule above, then hell breaks loose.
Well, not quite, but CM loses its Z reference because it still thinks it has a tool of a certain length (the one you swapped out behind its back), so next time it goes to the BitSetter it will compute a length difference based on something that isn’t there anymore, so the math will be all wrong, it will apply the wrong offset to the zeroes you set when probing with the BitZero, and the machine will end up cutting higher or lower than required.
I am a simple man trying to do simple things and as such I try to make it really easy on myself, so bitzero, bitsetter and bitrunner. I don’t try too hard to figure it all out or game the system…
The job always asks for the tool. Always. So that would be a yes I always follow the prompts. The only time I do not change the tool when prompted is if it’s already in there. I have never manually changed a tool without prompting during a job. I have changed bit ahead of time, before loading the job but then I load the job and it prompts me for the bit and I just click the button so it thinks I changed it.
I do that when the last bit I have in there is a vbit just to cut down on that point slamming down on the bitsetter.
However, I HAVE used the Probe before a job with the previous jobs tool loaded and then changed it to the right tool when prompted.
If you load the tool before running the job, but after the machine has powered up and initialized and measured the tool for the first time, succeeding measurements will be off by the difference (if any) of the change between the initial tool and the one installed w/o using the Load Tool button/prompt/interface.
It’s probably best to ignore “loading a job” as being any particularly significant event. It doesn’t affect anything with respect to how the machine currently views the workspace, its physical position in that workspace, or the relative length of the tool that’s inserted. All it really does is change the buffered G-Code in the memory of your PC. There’s no change in the machine’s perception of its state if you run the same job 10 times without reloading it, loading the job 10 times and running it, or loading 10 different jobs and running them each in sequence.
With that out of the way, the machine’s knowledge of what is in the collet is continually tracked from when you turn the machine on, to when you turn it off.
If, during that lifespan, you change the bit at any time without a prompt, it will not know, and your logical Z zero will be corrupted.
Loading new jobs, re-zeroing, going to rapid locations or whatever will not change the machine’s idea of what is in the collet.
If you load the tool before running the job, but after the machine has powered up and initialized and measured the tool for the first time, succeeding measurements will be off by the difference (if any) of the change between the initial tool and the one installed w/o using the Load Tool button/prompt/interface.
I understand this, but does that not only apply if there is no new measurement of a tool?
What is the point of the machine prompting me to change the tool and measuring the tool length? Would that not be the exact same thing? What it is measuring and is it not saving that measurement?
Gerry:
I wasn’t using job or rapids as anything other than descriptions of my process. I am aware of how it works in that sense. I very rarely initialize this machine, it’s almost always powered up.
But the same question to you
If, during that lifespan, you change the bit at any time without a prompt, it will not know, and your logical Z zero will be corrupted.
What is the point of the bitsetter? It is always run before anything is run on the machine and I do not swap bits in between an actual job unless prompted.
If I didn’t have a bitsetter, I would totally get that it’s ME, but I do use a bitsetter and unless I am fundamentally misunderstanding how the bitsetter works, then when it measures a tool, it has the new offset. It should not matter if or when I may have changed a bit in between.
This seems ok to me in the scenario that you do it right before you press “START JOB” and do nothing in between, which it sounds like you are.
I think it would be helpful to start closer to the beginning when describing your process, would you mind sharing your process from powering on the machine up to cutting?
The point is, the machine knows the offset length of the tool. If that changes there needs to be an immediate measurement to determine what that offset length is.
Never change the tool except when prompted to by the interface, or when the machine is fully powered down and with the expectation that the tool will be initially measured when the machine initializes.
It’s possible that you are doing everything correctly. However, sometimes things are happening that don’t come through in the text of these posts. We had a chap in another thread with a similar issue, and it took a while before it became apparent that he was swapping the last-used bit for the measuring probe at the end of each job without using the “Load New Tool” option. This wasn’t reflected in his stated list of operations since it was between jobs.
Soo… In this case, I was just exploring this comment:
I have changed bit ahead of time, before loading the job but then I load the job and it prompts me for the bit and I just click the button so it thinks I changed it.
Which just going by the text alone might contradict this new comment?
As Brian says, it’s possible to replace the tool after zeroing, but before the prompt to do so, and that won’t cause any problems. But you can’t do it and then zero - so… maybe you can confirm your doing it after zeroing and before the prompt?
If you do it in this window - even though in theory it is benign - it increases the chance that you might do it accidentally out of sequence.
I forgot you mentioned this. Do you also leave Carbide Motion connected and running whilst the machine is powered up? Or do you start and stop Carbide Motion, but not initialize the machine every time you do so?
With respect to concepts of “measurement of a tool” and the BitSetter, one thing to perhaps keep in mind is that the BitSetter never measures the tool’s length, and the machine doesn’t ever know the tool’s length. It’s easy to think of it as a measure or gauge, but it is not.
I think I get it now. I think what was happening is that when I run a job that starts (new) or ends (previous) with a Vbit or a point roundover bit, I change it to an endmill before using the BitZero (because I use that every time). I change it because I want to make sure it’s accurate and not break the tips etc.
I can understand (now) that doing this, regardless of if the bitsetter is used on the new tool later and before anything runs, it could cause trouble.
So what I will do in the future is run a tool change or initialize the machine with the proper starting bit. I am not in front of it right now, but whatever I can do to change the bit in between my jobs I will do from now on. I assumed the bitsetter overruled everything.
Also, thanks Will, I did not know that, I will power down from now on.
