Your wife is right, $150 min. I don’t take jobs unless it’s for friends or family, who I don’t charge anything, as it is a gift. I’m retired, making projects for money is work, done working for anyone.
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Amen. I went to a turners club meeting in Texarkana TX once and a man there had a tee shirt that said:
"I am retired, this is as dressed up as I get.
Let me throw my two cents worth in here. I think sometimes we fall into this mindset that everything we make has to be cheaply sold. If this isn’t your mindset, then great. But for the rest of us, this plays a huge roll in our pricing choices.
An artist doesn’t sell their wares for a little time and material. They sell for their creativity, design, vision, and an eye for making something that is one of a kind, sorta speaking.
We tend to think linear when it comes to buying or selling anything. We see time as the most valuable because we have learned in the beginning of our working lives, we gave time for money. Then people demand quality in this time for money. What customers fail to realize is we pour into our work many hours of training, learning, processing, researching, studying, and test running things on our machines.
We have built our skills up to be good at what we do and give quality products. Finding ways to make things faster, and with cheaper cost in materials, can lead to poorer quality products that may not stand up to the test of time or abuse, depending on what was made, and still making our customers feel they had bought a good product.
I have begun to realize that if a person wants a custom product made that cant be replicated for anybody else, then the cost will be much higher in my eyes, especially if its only to be made for them and then never made again. I will be more willing to be able to apply a discount to a product design if I have a chance to be able to produce it for others down the road. This falls into the area of mass production.
As for materials like the woods we use need to be stressed to your customers as to what they have. Yes, a person can go buy a cheap piece of crap from Walmart and think they have done good for themselves, when in reality, they find out that the item falls apart pretty fast, or just craps out on them.
My rule of thumb is to charge from $25-$35 per hour designing and developing their item. Then I charge $25-$35 per hour running the machine. I also calculate up all of the material cost from hardware, primers, paints, stains, clear coats, brushes, etc,. I take that cost and charge double that cost for labor or sanding and finishing the item. But, if it is a really creative design that pushes them limits of creativity, then I may decide to charge like an artist.
You charging $75 is undercutting your skills. Charging closer to what your wife said would be more like it. Charging $125 for this board isn’t out of the ordinary. If I had a customer bring me material and ask to make something for them. I would still charge them for my skilled work.
Some people might say that they could just go buy the tools to do the job themselves , and with them, I say, “More power to you.” If they can do it then let them go do it themselves. I don’t want to do work for someone that will be over my shoulder the whole time scrutinizing everything I do. I have invested around $40.000 in tools and hardware over the year and I didn’t do it because I was just wanting to have the tools. I bought them so I had the right tools to do the job well and effectively. Then I have honed my skills to be good at what I do. People get charged what I feel is reasonable on the market but also is my skill and quality based.
If you ask me, I would tell the customer for this tray that you would normally charge more for this work and will be giving them a discount to the $125. If they don’t like it then they can go somewhere else, or tell them to do it themselves after buying all of the tools and hardware needed. I don’t want to sound harsh here, but customers want to get the best quality products at the best possible deal. They like to tell someone that they purchased something that was so much more in cost and they got a huge discount on it and now are boasting about it.
In the end, you charge what you feel is comfortable. don’t lowball yourself because you want to make a deal. Also, find your target customers. I would never expect to sell one of my $3,000 tables at a flea market that is selling everything like going to a yard sale.
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In contrast to many others, I think $75 is more than enough.
You did a nice job, but basically it is just a nicely finished board with rounded corners. Besides there was hardly any material cost on your side.
here is an approach that can establish a starting point…
Raw material added to your hourly rate multiplied by the number of hours, all multiplied by 2… 2 represents a profit that can be used to improve or replace equipment.
($100 wood + ($30 per hour x 2 hours)) x 2
(100+60)x2 = $320 before taxes
in your case ($5 bolts + ($30x2))x2 = $130 before taxes
Everyone is free to adapt their hourly rate or their profit coefficient… Or to make a “friendly price”
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I love this breakdown. It has a variable rate that both computes material cost and hourly rate together in a simple formula that come out nicely.
There is also the question of what else you can do with your time. The one-board for 150 or two for 75, doesn’t take into account the question of what else you could do with the time it takes to make that second board…could you make something that would sell for 200 in that same time frame?
If you have a backlog of projects, charge more per piece. If you’ve got a ton of free time on your hands, you can afford to charge less - but then again, how much is your free time worth?
I have found cost of materials to be the least-important factor in pricing. It’s all about time. When it comes to building furniture (my line of work), most pieces cost within a fraction of each other. Lumber costs are relatively consistent and the amount of lumber used in a table, or a credenza, or a set of chairs or a bed - is going to be in a common ballpark (large outliers left out). The variable is complexity. I can make two four-door cabinets; one that has plate-joined sides with shelves inside and another that has dovetailed corners and a bank of drawers behind the doors. They will use about the same amount of wood. But you can bet the second one will be at least three-times the cost of the first. So my first thoughts are, “How complex is this? How long will it take to make? Have I done it before or am I going to be wasting time trying techniques out?”. Then you can add in the elements of uniqueness of design, uniqueness of functionality, and value to the customer - all of which add to the selling price.
Lastly, I’ll point out that we use CNCs…which run themselves. Whenever I’m running a CNC job, I’m working on another job (while keeping my ears and at least one of my three eyes on the machine). I’m double-earning during that time. Could I charge once and give my CNC customer a break in cost? Yes…I could, if I choose to do so. Or not.
All that good advice spent…my wife thinks I underprice as well. So I always ask her opinion before conveying a price to my clients. It’s very seldom that she thinks lower than I do. She’s most often right. But I make it a practice not to worry about whether she’s right or… “not as right”. I usually go with her gut.
So…I may as well just get these out of my system…because they’re bubbling inside of me:
- I just celebrated my 36th wedding anniversary…that marks 27 years of happy marriage.
- When my wife wants my opinion, she gives it to me.
- When I married her, I knew she was Mrs. Right…I just didn’t know her first name was “Always”.
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All at the start, the end or just interspersed throughout?
I guess that’s the question, eh?
Monday is my 18th. I am trying to do the calculations.
My usually thinks my prices should be lower than I do but she is a very practical person and not one to spend money on an “art” piece.
The piece I was most happy with was a box with a relief carving on the top. She said it wasn’t her cup of tea😂
She is supportive in my endeavors though. But I am sure if I told her I was going to quit my day job and focus on this full time it would be a different story. Retirement can’t come soon enough.
Really interesting topic. On the most difficult questions to answer in our beloved craft.
My two cents follow.
Your wife’s perception has to be biased (she loves you) so your question is in my humble opinion fair, that said, her thoughts are in my opinion correct, here’s why:
I believe that the online and retail markets are flooded with acceptable quality goods that are mass produced and that are very very cheap, (there is no way a single craftsman could ever charge some of those prices and make a living), I have seen some instances in which finished goods sell below the price of materials, (maybe it has to do with wholesale economies).
There is no doubt a disconnect in our times between the price and value of many things, I think it comes down to perception, and perception is highly influenced by price. Kind of virtuous or vicious cycle, it can go either way. You have probably heard of the birkin bag, if you haven’t please google it, it is bewildering. (Also google veblen goods). So the price you set will change the way people see your product (funky but true).
Say you board had been designed and handcrafted by sir Antonio Stradivari the famous luthier from Carmona Italy (it would probably be worth quite a bit), or on the other extreme that it were displayed on a shelf on a bargain store (maybe not so much). Same board different prices. Price is hinged on perceived value. Maestre JL provided a very good formula of time and materials, some people would multiply by 2, some by 3 some even by 4. Let’s say the formula provides an objective pricing strategy, and there is also the subjective side of it (I’m calling it perception).
I personally believe that individually crafted items should fetch higher prices (if you can charge more then by all means do), there is no way you can compete with mass produced items pricewise, there simply is no way you can do high volume if you individually and carefully handcraft paying attention to detail. (Even if you use CNCs and power tools you’re still individually crafting). Just do more to let your customers know the story, make it a conversation piece, I’m thinking along the lines of “Oh this lovely piece was designed and handcrafted by DHuston (sorry don’t know your name) he has a shop in his house and blah blah blah”.
So even if you went to williams sonoma and saw a nearly identical board for say $50, it still wouldn’t be the one DHuston made in his shop. The story makes the difference, that’s the part I think your wife is seeing, and she is right.
Hope it helps
Best
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