Does Carbide 3D offer spare ER16 Collet nuts for the 65mm spindle ? Or if not what’s the aftermarket recommendation for one with the correct threading?
I bought a few additional MariTool collets for my 5 Pro and I’d like to pair them up with nuts to make tool changes a little quicker. I found a few prior posts but nothing definite. Thanks…
Do yourself a favor and reach out to Ron at Precise Bits, you will learn more that you ever need to know about, collets, nuts and deflection. A wealth of knowledge. They have three different levels of accuracy with their Collets and Nuts.
We now have ER-16 collets and nuts in our shop:
Thanks…does this mean the nut isn’t sold separately, only with the collets? Probably for the price it isn’t bad to have some spare collets, just making sure.
Correct, only sold as a pair.
That said, Collets and Nuts should be considered a consumable, and one should keep spares on hand if unwilling to wait for replacements from the magical land at the other end of the FedEx/UPS/Amazon/DHL van.
Thanks…I had found them looking for odd size collets but they only had the common sizes. I had my eye on a few of their products. Seeing your name have you used their fretboard and slotting bits?
Well this is a topic that would force me to unlearn years of conventional woodworking mentality. I usually don’t replace anything unless it has signs of wear. My Porter Cable 691 is still cruising with its factory collets from the 90’s. It wasn’t run even close to 40 hours a week over that time but they’ve never showed the slightest sign of wearing out…no bits slipping, enlarged cuts, difficulty chucking or unchucking.
I didn’t say anything about what things should look like when they are to be replaced, merely that if one doesn’t want to wait, one should have spares on hand.
For more on ER-collets see:
https://carbide3d.com/hub/docs/er-collet-basics/
and for maintaining things:
https://carbide3d.com/hub/docs/maintenance/
FWIW, I have thus far only damaged/replaced one collet (an 8mm → 1/8" reducing bushing destroyed when I forgot to ramp in when cutting aluminum, and which arguably was too short — the company has since switched to a longer design) — it was that incident which convinced me to buy spares (they were out-of-stock for a while, and it was a long trip for them from Germany to this side of the pond).
Which Maritool product, and how does it speed up tool changes?
Some folks will have a single ER-nut, and when changing to a tool with a different shank diameter will need to remove it from the current collet and transfer it to the new one — having a nut for each collet pre-attached speeds this up (but imposes the need to be diligent about cleaning the collets/nuts and to periodically disassemble them for cleaning).
…weird that overwrite my previous post on the first try…
Thanks…glad to hear you’ve had good lifespan on them. I do try to keep backups for critical bits on hand so it makes sense to treat collets the same. Yes I have two sided projects where that require switching back and forth from 3/8" to 1/4" to 1/8" on both sides, possibly more if on between size screw holes are needed. I try to sequence cuts to minimize tool changes and tool handling in general which is what extra nuts would help with, while still doing regular cleaning.
Got it. Not one collet/nut for every bit, but one for each shank diameter in use. Makes sense.
BTW, not that you would recommend it up front given cost and complexity, but have you considered putting a comprehensive guide to implement your Mafell spindle? And you may even have already done that. It’s not a cheap product, and i think you said it was a pita, but it’s seems like it’s easier and cheaper than putting in an ATC.
There’s not much to it — there’s a mount which I’ve since updated, and a dust shoe which I finally have working pretty well — probably if someone got one and looked into it, they’d be able to work up a better option. That said, if someone wants files and my old mount (which could be reworked towards making my updated design), just ask.
It’s nice, but as I note in the thread on this, it’s indulgent, possibly prone to chatter as Marius Hornberger pointed out on YouTube, and ER-style collets are plenty quick for most folks.
OK, I get that, but how does one evaluate their collets and nuts to know when they’ve been “consumed?”
After my second router bit slippage in the Makita collet router, I decided that collet was worn. But, honestly just looking at it, I don’t see the kind of wear that would make me suspect it’s bad. No score nor burning marks, etc. Maybe I’ll put my new one and old side side by side and take some close up pictures…
I’m cheap, I probably wouldn’t swap one out until it stops working reliably so long as there wasn’t obvious damage/wear.
@TDA you seem to know a thing or two about collets 
this thread got me wondering if there is a good description or process to identify collet wear? I couldn’t find an answer on the forums but if you answered this in 2019 or something feel free to point me towards a post 
I realized that I’ve got a good number of quality high precision collets and I don’t know when I should be replacing them. (I just sort of assume I don’t put enough mileage on them for it to matter much 
)
Does collet failure happen slowly or all at once?
Does a precision collet become less precise over time, meaning I can simply demote high precision to mid precision to low precision, keeping the collet in rotation until it truly bites the dust 
Are there any tell tale signs when a replacement is needed?
Luckily I already know where to get exceptionally precise replacement collets if/when the time comes.
This is what I was getting at too. I’ve never had a collet in a pro non-CNC router wear out let alone fail outright like snap or eject a bit entirely. The few times I’ve had bits sllip under load I attributed after the fact to micro-debris in there when it was chucked since the issues didn’t recur after cleaning and rechucking. But If there’s something I should be looking for other than degraded performance or slippage type issues, I’d be glad to hear it.
Usual preface, I’m with PreciseBits so while I try to only post general information take everything I say with the understanding that I have a bias.
First, why did you have to make me check how long I’ve been on here? … 2016 … Just going to ignore that…
There’s a few ways collets and nuts fail over time. Most shops I know that track it use an hourly range and/or track runout and physical signs.
So you can track runout and it will get worse over time. How long? Depends on the cutting forces and the tightening torque. This is probably the most reliable but requires measurement equipment.
A simple thing you can look for is in the bottom of the nut and the short taper on the collet. Over time those surfaces will wear and/or get material stuck between the collet and nut tapers when tightened. Some wear is fine and not going to do much. However, if you have transferred metal on the short taper of the collet or swirl marks in the nut taper those are bad. This is probably the most common failure we see.
The collet can also get “sprung” an easy way to tell this is to take the collet out of the nut and put a correct sized shank through it. You should not have to “force” it in. It should be minor or almost no resistance. It should also be consistent in the friction it produces inserting the tool. This one is not as critical but is is a sign that something bad will happen soon or that it’s going to start wearing more quickly.
On the collets you can also sometimes see other wear signs. Typically either “rings” at the same depth of the collet, or fretting across parts of the collet. These CAN be caused by spindle issues. But it’s much more likely that they would be from a worn collet.
Something that you can see in odd cuts is if the tool starts breaking at the face of the collet. Pretty much any cutting tool should be weakest at some point in the flute or carryout (ground part behind the flute). If a tool is breaking at the collet face it is “pinching” somewhere in the collet and allowing the tool to “wobble” inside. That over time breaks it at the collet face.
The other obvious ones are that you no longer have enough slip resistance. Either the tool pulling out or the “spinning” inside the collet. That one’s pretty obvious though.
That’s the ones off the top of my head. Let me know if you want more details on something.
If I can get a second I’ll try to dig through some of our failed ones for some pictures. No idea on what of the above I might have for examples though.
Thanks for the in depth info. Can those visual issues like the swirl marks be seen with the naked eye or do they need special equipment or magnification to detect?
No problem.
You don’t need magnification or really any equipment for the things I listed other than the runout measurements.
I’ll see if I can get some pics later. Won’t be back in until Monday though so might be a little bit.
Let me know if there’s something else.