Touch probe no longer going to be offered?

(Scott Massey) #122

@RichCournoyer Awesome. That’s kind of what I thought. Can you send a picture of the circuit board? My guess is it’s not much more than an LED or two to indicate that the probe is “on” and that it has "touched the probe. I’m curious because it is tough to see it any other way.

(Jim Amos) #123

I understand this balance when it comes to the scale of machines and support that Carbide is trying to manage. What is unclear in regard to the support of probing in the Carbide Motion workflow is whether or not the lack of dimensional offsets for the probe is intentional, or “we’ll get to it later”?

For now, without this support, and that Z jogging and jog speed has been deprecated from my Bluetooth 10 key, CM v4.08 is still a non-starter for me.

(Richard Cournoyer) #124

Sorry I’d rather not since I have a pre-production model. I have seen the board and there are about 10 chips on board. Really. I was surprised too b

Probe release info?
(Scott Massey) #125

@RichCournoyer Ok. Fair enough. Thanks for the feedback.

I ask because the difference between passive and active probes on these small machines is pretty small. I like the idea of a LED or two to indicate status but I question the need for strain gauges or other higher order devices of accuracy. I worry that the cost of development is out weighing the need. My guess is that this device will be very good but pricey. Some will want this level of accuracy but most will not. My hope is Carbide will incorporate the ability of the individual user to decide on their active device or the user’s self-made tool by incorporating into the new software the ability to choose.

(Jude Marleau) #126

I thought the Shapeoko 3 was a kit, and as a kit it would be more up to the user how to implement accessories. Being able to use any general product or home made device to accomplish more user friendly abilities, I thought, was Carbide3D’s original marketing theme. Buy our kit and assemble it and than you can add to it how ever you want. This leaves a wide open avenue for accessorizing the kit. There are many high priced systems with proprietary accessories and that was how I thought Carbide3D had broken away from the rest with their legendary design of a simplified, accurate and not generic but simply a very good basic system. Changing ,as it seems to appear, to a proprietary system which eliminates the user from “building” their complete system from a kit how they want could likely be the straw to break Carbide3D’s back in the industry. The Shapeoko 3 IS a wonderful design and the original idea to maintain that simplicity while allowing the user to complicate how they will is the reason I bought mine and I am very happy with mine, although I do not use CC or CM because I have found a simple very user friendly program. I have all the probing options anyone would want and I hope Carbide3D does not degenerate into a corporate entity that forgets the customers whom has supported them from the start. I am working towards my second Shapeoko 3 purchase and would like to have 3 running someday. Carbide3D has done a terrific job so far, I hope everyone is wrong who thinks they are leaving the hobbyist cnc’r and trying to replicate those other more intense systems that are over priced and complicated. Good Luck Carbide3D, you still have my support and encouragement.

(mikep) #127

I think Carbide has done a great job of adding accessories without destroying the ability to do your own thing. Don’t like their software? You can use pretty much anyone’s. Don’t like their probe? Use a different one. Will you be able to do so with their software? I don’t know, they haven’t released anything yet (so you don’t know that either). They’re not stopping you from using anything you want and making it “proprietary.”

How has this statement changed?
“Buy our kit and assemble it and than you can add to it how ever you want. This leaves a wide open avenue for accessorizing the kit.”

It’s still exactly the same. If you don’t want to add their accessories, you don’t have to. If you do want to, you can. How is that a bad thing?

(Scott Massey) #128

@mikep I do agree with you. The products are very straightforward and flexible. With success comes a sense of protectionism that is very difficult to keep in check. Part of their success is their software and because there are competitive offerings that handle this task I hope they keep that in mind as they complete this next phase of development. In my opinion, they will better serve their customers by allowing self-made probes.

(William Adams) #129

I’m pretty sure Carbide 3D won’t disable the probing commands (which as I understand it we helped develop / fund?) — the problem is working out the macros so that they won’t break / damage endmills or mar stock or third-party touchplates

(Jude Marleau) #130

You are exactly right Mike, that’s why they have my support and encouragement and why I am planning on adding more systems. I was trying (maybe like a bull fighter) to make a point. This has been a very long topic and a lot of people seem discouraged with their own impressions. People are obviously concerned about Carbide3D leaving them behind with comments that other probes won’t work. Proprietary usually ends up expensive, complicated and mandatory. That is my very small worry. The simplicity, accuracy and unlimited potential is what I bought into and still believe they offer. I do warn about over growing. Edward Ford answered my support email in 10 minutes the other day. He solved my problem, saved having to replace a board and I added another new feature ( of my design and requirement) to my Shapeoko 3. Carbide3D has overwhelmed me with the best support I have ever experienced. I successfully use alternate programs and alternate accessories and Carbide3D has supported me in all my efforts. Edward Ford has my respect and support. To date, the only thing actually proprietary to Carbide3D is their initiative to make a simplified, accurate, basic CNC experience affordable for entry level cnc’ers while providing a system of unending potential for those experienced in cnc, while maintaining the highest customer support in any industry. NOBODY else does that. Maybe I can clarify my thoughts, because I have seen limited progress with CC and CM and the long delay of the probe, the worries of “proprietarizationalism” have grown like a conspiracy within this topic. Let us not have any conspiracies beyond Bigfoot and may Carbide3D grow and prosper.

(Scott Massey) #131

Well said. I too have gotten nothing but support from Carbide. I do have faith that outstanding solutions will be produced by Carbide. I just want them to keep in mind that they can and should support multiple options.

(Jim Amos) #132

I read upstream here there’s a “strain gauge / load cell” that’s integral to the C3D probe? That’s an interesting twist. I had been wondering about the integral “puck” and what needed to be “amplified”. Now I know.

Touching off can be accomplished without the end-mill/collet/chuck being part of the probe input circuit which is a nice feature. I concur with the opinions above, we all hope that Rob/C3D incorporates probe dimension in an upcoming release.

If you’re reading C3D, please add the numerical keypad v3 jogging keystrokes in v4… pretty please?

This would include jogging speed and Z movements.

(Stephen Needle) #133

Hi Jim
I’m really intrigued by you mentioning that you are using the Estlcam exclusively as I think its the perfect tool for me too but I’m unsure how to go about setting my machine up to use it. I think it would be useful to be able to switch between the software too but not essential if its easier. I’m especially interested in the probing 3d parts that Estlcam provides as I mostly engrave aluminium parts of all shapes and currently have to draw measure and draw each one!!!
I believe my board is Carbide Motion v2.2.
Would you be willing to tell me exactly how to go about it and how I can then connect a probe? Plus are there any downsides? Like does the measuring probe become redundant etc.
Any help you can offer will be much appreciated.

(Jim Amos) #134

v2.2 CM should work right out of the box with Estlcam (no PROG pushbutton). I had some issues with the bootloader of my v2.2 board and I ended up reflashing the bootloader. I documented the reflash here:

I also used the standard Shapeoko configuration right out of the Estlcam box, and I don’t employ the Shapeoko homing switches (those I use with my GRBL controller).

Sounds like Estlcam contour mapping will get you where you want to be.

(Richard Cournoyer) #135

I’m not Jim, but can assist: First the new Touch Probe will come with the necessary documataion to tell you how to connect the probe to all versions of the GRBL board. But as the owner of a Ver2.2 board AND a Touch Probe, here is how (I believe) you will connect it.
See photo.
You will connect to the two (2) pin connector marked PROBE (part of the long white connector) and circled in red. Nixt, you will also connect the provided pigtail to a 5V source. I have identified four 5 Volt pins on the 2.2 board (Red Dots).

I ALSO have a probe that is part of the Additive Aerospace kit, and I use it to locate the center of holes (when I want the center of a hole to be my X0Y0, so NO it does not become redundant, it just becomes another tool in out toolbox.

I hope I have answered all your questions.

(Luke) #136

What software is that?

(Luke) #137

I got bored with looking at alternatives… I tried the new version of CM without a official touch probe…

(Jude Marleau) #138

I use sketchup 2017 make exclusively to draw and Estlcam exclusively to cam and control my Shapeoko 3. They are my tools and the Shapeoko 3 is my machine which I have enjoyed learning this new adventure with. Search Estlcam in the forum, it;s a popular topic although not a C3D product. It has proven itself to be very easy for me to learn and use productively but I am not a programmer or a machinist so the high end programs are not within my learning curve.or ability. As with anything relating to my use of the Shapeoko, I have and do suggest that using any non-C3D product with your Shapeoko or C3D machine that one communicates and qualifies that product with the C3D support team. They supply the best support I have ever experienced in any product ever. They have legitimate concerns with warranty issues but they have proven that their customers’ productive use of their machines is prominent , thanks to Edward Ford and his team.

(Eddie Garmon) #139

@MrBeaver It appears you will just need a probe of the correct size. It resets the zero to the top corner, then when the mill is up it is at the correct height.

(Jim Amos) #140


Thanks for your vid… it’s been confirmed that v4.08 probing works. It should be all well and good when using the C3D probe of expected dimension, so when custom/non-C3D probes are used, it’s unclear any custom offsets can be used… AFAIK, there’s no support currently for this (I’ve emailed to request this feature).

Your machine thinks X/Y are zero, but are they in respect to the work piece? And for your Z, is 28mm your retract height? If you removed the probe and positioned to 0,0,0 you’d likely see the dimensional offset differences between your probe and the C3D probe.

(Stephen Needle) #141

Hi Jim

You may or may not be able to help as I’m running in circles trying to find out if I can use Estlcam with my Nomad Pro machine, and in particular the 3d probe facility within Estlcam.
If I briefly explain what I’m trying to achieve it may help you understand as I’m not electronically minded so I’m not familiar with the Carbide Motion V2.2. circuit board.
I basically engrave aluminium parts of different shapes so it would save me hours of trying to ‘reverse engineer’ these aluminium parts if I could probe each piece so that the Nomad sees the engraving as ‘flat’ which is clearly demonstrated in one of Estlcam’s videos. That’s it really…but the downside is I haven’t got a clue how to go about it although I’m not completely stupid I do have a theory on how I think it might work.
My probe pins are currently occupied by 2 cables that I assume connect to the homing/tool depth switch within the machine which I believe isn’t necessary when using Estlcam so I’m happy to disable this if necessary.
So if I convert to Estlcam, do I simply disconnect these 2 cables and use them for the 3d probing? Or is it not a simple as this?
If you have assist that would be great but if not don’t worry I’ll carry on searching.
Best regards