Nomad 883 Pro Dust Head


#21

You could theoretically get it to work with the ballmill with some modifying, but you’ll be far better off using a square endmill.
My nomad came with a square endmill, as well as a ball endmill, did yours not?


(Mark Bellon) #22

will the ball mill which comes with the nomad work for this ? or does it have to be a square mill.

The Necessary Tools section clearly states that a 0.125" square end end mill is required.

A ball end end mill is a waste of time since all of the surfaces and edges are not rounded. Also, MeshCAM currently has a (reported but not yet fixed) bug that will cause the brackets to be gouged if a ball end end mill is used.

mark


(Donavon Yelton) #23

Finally finished up the dust head this morning. I had everything finished a couple of days ago, but I had to find a coupler to attach to the Festool.

The Nomad 883 Pro case doesn’t leave much room for routing properly, even when going through the back. I would much rather go through the side, but I simply could not find a position where the hose inside wouldn’t contact the door. I may end up building a custom case for this thing like @mbellon did (BTW, do you have a buy list for the case that you made, I’m intrigued).

As I mentioned previously, I would much rather have the hose exit the Nomad case through a right angle adapter but I just wanted to get this thing working first.

Now for the photos of the finished project:





(Mark Bellon) #24

Nicely Done!

I found things so tight that I build my own Nomad enclosure. That opened the door to considerably better noise reduction.

The fit is tight but I really like what you did.

Yes, a right angle on the side would be really nice. I never found a fitting (this doesn’t mean there isn’t one) that I like and that contributed to my choice of a different enclosure.

mark


(Donavon Yelton) #25

I hate to say it, but I ran my first job after installing the dust head and I’m unimpressed with the results…maybe it has something to do with the vacuum created in the stock Nomad enclosure (maybe not enough vacuum) or possibly the material I was milling.

I wanted to just run a really quick and easy test so I grabbed one of the Home Depot floor sample freebies (laminate flooring type), fired up Carbide Create, and just put in some text and told it to cut 2/3 of the way through the floor sample. I’m not sure that even 10% of the chips made it into the Festool, and that was with the CT26 turned on at maximum suction.

What am I missing here? Maybe I need to think about that custom case sooner rather than later. FWIW, the the chips did stay (mostly) within the boundaries of the stock instead of flying everywhere, but they really didn’t get sucked up into the tube as I had expected.


(Mark Bellon) #26

Air must be able to come into the enclosure as much as it is being pulled out.

When you try to open the enclosure while it is running, how hard is it to open? If it is a fight, more inflow is necessary.

I experimented with my Festool CT26 and had to turn things up a fair ways to get good pick up. You may have noticed that I use a 50 mm hose for all of the tubing until I get to the enclosure. I have much less resistance in the tubing that using the standard tubing.

Also, remember that we don’t have the rear done yet. That will help a bit.

mark


(Donavon Yelton) #27

Where did you get your 50mm hose from for the CT26?

The front door is pretty easy to open when running, even with the Festool turned all the way up. I can tell it has some vacuum, but it doesn’t take much effort at all to open it. My downfall may be using the hose that came with the Festool (I figured after paying $600 on a vacuum cleaner after forking out $$ for the Nomad that I would try to spend as little as possible until I start making some things with it).

I mostly got the Festool to mill PCB after hearing horror stories about the junk that gets thrown around during the process.


(Mark Bellon) #28

Where did you get your 50mm hose for the CT26?

Remember that I design enclosures and vacuum systems for people.

One of the principals is use the largest tubing/piping one can for a long as one can; even so keep the run as short as possible. Another is to avoid bends and when a bend is necessary make it as gentle as possible; also avoid transitions and, when necessary, make them as smooth as possible.

So I went searching the Festool sites to learn of the available tubing options and discovered the largest diameter, shortest tubing they offered:

Pricy, but serious air flow is possible.

The front door is pretty easy to open when running, even with the Festool turned all the way up.

That’s not a good sign… :frowning:

I can tell it has some vacuum, but it doesn’t take much effort at all to open it.

Dust collection is about vacuum AND air velocity. We need air speed to get things going and going well. The standard tubing is good but may not be enough (I’ve never tried it). If you look at my enclosure, I have a 2.5" fitting that also happens to fit the 50 mm Festool tubing. Only there does the size drop.

Avoiding bends is also important. When necessary we want then as gentle as possible.

My downfall may be using the hose that came with the Festool (I figured after paying $600 on a vacuum cleaner after forking out $$ for the Nomad that I would try to spend as little as possible until I start making some things with it).

There are definitely issues with smaller tubing and good dust collection. If you did go for a custom enclosure, we can discuss a modification to use larger tubing. Without the constraint of the Nomad enclosure, more options become available.

I mostly got the Festool to mill PCB after hearing horror stories about the junk that gets thrown around during the process.

Garolite and FR4 produce some of the nasty stuff that affects for your lungs. It’s really important to handle it properly.

You’re mostly there! A few tweaks…

mark

P.S.

If you run the tubing out the front and make it as straight as you can, does this affects things? If so, how much?

P.P.S.

You can find pictures of the fittings I use and how I run things through my enclosure here:


(Donavon Yelton) #29

50 mm hose has been ordered. I’ll let you know how things go with the larger hose!


(Mark Bellon) #30

Notice the difference between the two tubing choices. The 50 mm tubing is essentially twice the diameter and half the length of the standard one. This reduces air friction considerably.

The diameter of the tubing inside the Nomad enclosure was chosen to be the largest that could easily fit and have sufficient flexibility. It is a tradeoff; it’s always a tradeoff.

With my alternative enclosure, it’s possible to alter the dust head design slightly and use even larger tubing. This is because I have the height to enter from the side and have a very short run (I could have come from the top; personal choice).

Lofting is a complex combination of vacuum (how hard the pull is) and velocity (how fast the air can be made to move). The Festool has plenty of both, it just has to get to the job site.

mark


(Eddie Garmon) #31

Also, looking at your photo, you want to eliminate that near 90° right at the dust head. All hard angles are generally bad.


(Mark Bellon) #32

Also, looking at your photo, you want to eliminate that near 90° right at the dust head.

This is one of the reasons I went with my own enclosure… I had much more freedom to run the tubing and avoid hard angles. The Nomad 883 Pro enclosure is very tight when tubing is introduced. The original Nomad 883 enclosure was much more forgiving.

All hard angles are generally bad.

They sure are. I posted a summary of the rules for running vacuum tubing here:

mark


(Donavon Yelton) #33

Quick update…I received the larger 50 mm hose and installed it. Since it is much stiffer at the end I had to make a small change to the entry to the Nomad. I’m still going through the same hole but I’m essentially elbowing a little through the smaller hose (same as used inside the Nomad enclosure) so that I can attach the 50 mm Festool hose along the back X axis of the enclosure.

The suction is WAY more present when using the fatter hose (I’m pretty sure this thing could suck my face off at full power) but I’m displeased with the amount of vacuum inside of the Nomad. My plan now is to apply some foam strips along the door to help seal things up a bit more. The gap on the sides of the front door of the Nomad are way too wide IMO.


(Mark Bellon) #34

The suction is WAY more present when using the fatter hose (I’m pretty sure this thing could suck my face off at full power)

That’s because you have a Festool running with nearly optimal tubing. No surprise! This is a seriously effective tool.

The standard hose is design to handle to dust flow from sanders, rotary saws and some such. The Festool chopper tool uses larger tubing (37 mm) since it generates dust more quickly. The 50 mm tubing is used when one has to go long distances but for our purposes it’s just perfect - minimal frictional forces.

but I’m displeased with the amount of vacuum inside of the Nomad.

Let’s examine that.

My plan now is to apply some foam strips along the door to help seal things up a bit more. The gap on the sides of the front door of the Nomad are way too wide IMO.

Remember that air in must equal air out. The Festool is pulling out. That much air must be pulled in. Sealing up the Nomad enclosure is a good idea - it minimizes places where particles can leak out of the enclosure - but you’ve got to let air in otherwise the efficiency of the Festool will drop.

Sharp bends really affect the efficiency of tubing for vacuum purposes. Could you please try an experiment? Run the tubing out the front with the door open and hold the tubing so that is has as gentle a curve as you can work out. Does that help?

We should also look at your transition. It may be leaking or be abrupt, leading to friction.

One of the reasons I gave up on the Nomad enclosure was the need for tight turns.

While I’m getting good performance, there is room for later improvements if necessary - larger tubing inside the enclosure (which would require an update the dust head).

mark

P.S.

Review the principals for vacuum tubing runs here:


#35

Late to this party, but just wanted to add my experience that I also had the smaller Festool hose and even independently came up with the same connector (the rubber flexible hose fitting with double hose clamps thing), so our setups are functionally identical (I have the CT midi). And I did notice that the festool hose by itself with the midi set to full power had quite strong suction, but with the hose plugged into the flexible hose fitting and then into the tubing that goes into the nomad and into the dusthead, that the suction was markedly decreased (the small hose -> larger pipe fitting -> fairly small festool hose opening must be really bad for maintaining airflow).

Nevertheless I was extremely impressed with how well it picked up stuff. With wood or plastic I would say it’s sucking up 99% of everything; like I rarely have to clean anything up - just remove the piece and it’s good to go.

So there must be something else in your setup that is decreasing the effectiveness. Maybe that hard angle right at the dust head? Oh, also I have the regular nomad, not the pro, so had space to make a full circle with the brush instead of just a semicircle. Not sure if that matters.


(TS) #36

I like “mbellon” Mark Bellon’s design so much that I took it and made some slight modifications to it for my simple liking. It’s not better, maybe a little worse but definitely different in a few ways. I didn’t create a new thread since this is his work and he deserves all credit. Here are the variances and why:

  1. First I changed the Meshcam design to a “Carbide Create” since I’m using a 4K display on Windows and Meshcam isn’t formatted for that yet (everything is 1/4th the size). Plus I wanted to see what the Carbide Create program could do.

  2. I wanted a camera up close that I could stream to my Android phone and monitor the flow or problems. I know there are IOS apps that can do the same I just don’t know which ones.

  3. I wanted to have a little more suction around the plastic and brass that I have been milling. To do this I felt that a rounder dust shroud, that got closer to the cnc bit, would be necessary along with utilizing harder rubber/plastic instead of the bristle brush approach might work.

  4. I utilized a thinner plastic since it was free from Tap Plastics. The guy gave me the scrap since he knew I’d be back to buy more stuff. The piece was 8x8 inches and .18" thick instead of .5" which both parts top and bottom could be cut from the one scrap.

  5. Last I changed the size of magnets only because I already had some that were strong but no where near as good as Mark’s ones.

  6. The hole for the CNC head is exactly the right size on the top frame assembly to slip on snuggly and stay put. As such, I did not create the two parts that hold the top plate in place as Mark has created. The holes are there so if I need to add that in at a later time, they’re available.

Carbide Create is buggy as hell so I apologize now for imperfections from the top plate to the lower plate, cnc bit selections, RPM’s, etc. I really had to keep at it before I could actually complete the two jobs.

Parts I used:

  • 1 scrap plastic from “Tap Plastics” 8x8x.18"
  • Four neodymium rare earth magnets (I already owned)
  • Flexible sump discharge hose kit from Home Depot (24ft for less than $13!!)
  • Floor walk way runner from Home Depot (I believe $2.28 a foot, you only need one)
  • I bought screws but never needed them since it’s an exact fit (may need it down the line)
  • DBPOWER 2MP USB Waterproof Hd 6-led $23.89 from Amazon for the longer 7M version
  • Free YawCam software for Windows (other formats may exist but I did not check)
  • Free Android IPCam Viewer and/or free Android tinyCam software as a viewer

The finished product. The USB camera has adjustable LED lights on it too. Really nice.

The top and removable parts cut from the same piece of scrap. Notice that the removable part is open to allow slipping on/off with ease

The Flexible Sump Discharge Hose Kit for Under $12 at Home Depot

The plastic rug runner from Home Depot. I believe it was $2.28 per foot. You only need one.

The plastic runner cut up and glued to the removable plate.

Manually cut hole for USB camera (started with small drill bit and graduated to the correct size)

View from freely available YawCam which allows streaming to smartphones, tablets, websites, etc.

Viewing the stream on my Android phone with the freely available tinyCam

The Carbide Create files:
Carbide Create-Dust head.zip (194.9 KB)

Sorry such a long post


(Mark Bellon) #38

VERY NICE!

Skirts vs. brushes is an eternal argument. I remain unconvinced that one works better than the other. YMMV. Please report back on effectiveness.

Can we see pictures of your hose enclosure exit method?

The “close up” camera is nice!

When the machine really gets moving during a job, please report back about the need for the spindle brackets. I found I needed them to ensure that the dust head did not move or rotate and potentially jam the Nomad. YMMV.

There is nothing special about the spindle brackets, they can be machined or 3D printed.

Please report back about how effectively the magnets keep things in place when things really get moving. The double hole method I use prevents easy rotation of the brush plate.

What dust collector are you using?

Please edit your posting with the files. Do not do that! Remove them from the posting. We don’t want people surprised by extensions that don’t match the file contents. Try using a ZIP file.

mark

P.S.

I considered using CC for the fixed and brush plates… but it was so buggy at the time - and lacked construction tabs - that I couldn’t make it work. All Nomad 883 users have MeshCAM and so the choice was made (at the time).


(TS) #39

Thanks so much Mark,

I really appreciate the feedback and help. I’m very new to the world of fabrication and am very slowly learning. Your dust collector was an inspiration and a way to learn more so I went with it.

I followed your advice and deleted the secondary post and then edited the first one instead. The forum will not accept uploads of any compressed format (ZIP, 7z, LHA, RAR, etc) as well as the original file format of .c2d so unfortunately I don’t see a work around at this point.

For the “spindle brackets” not being in place I have done a few jobs without any problems using brass and plastic. The jobs have been very short stock with .4" being the largest today. The vacuum hose that comes into the top plate actually extends past the top plate and catches on the lower removable plate. This creates a situation where the removable plate never is able to move into the Nomad’s bracket as the head moves up and down. Hope that makes sense.

Skirts vs. brushes I believe you and have not one bit of clue which one would truthfully be better. I was just hoping that more of the suction would be forced to come through the back opening forcing more debris inward.

The dust collector is simply a shark vacuum with hepa filter. It will do until I can afford anything nicer. In fact the part that feeds into the back is just for show at the moment as I’m really feeding out the front almost directly to the vacuum. I need to make another run to the store to get a 1 1/4" hose to 1 1/4" hose connector. Right now it’s just packing tape bridging the two. :frowning:


(Mark Bellon) #40

I really appreciate the feedback and help. I’m very new to the world of fabrication and am very slowly learning.

Good design comes from initial experience, an openness to outside input and willingness to experiment. The dust head is the result of MANY prototypes. Most of them never left the drawing or CAD stage! More than a handful were machined and tried.

If I can offer any advise it’s learn to sketch (and/or CAD)! If you can see a dragon, you can slay it.

Take your time choosing projects. They should be inspiring (I WANT THAT!) and seem like they are bit more than you know how to do, strive and let necessity be the mother of invention. Rinse. Repeat. Fail. Try again. Succeed.

Your dust collector was an inspiration and a way to learn more so I went with it.

Thank you! I wanted one for myself and as my friend Tim can tell you, I went nuts going back and forth until I finally found a way to do what I needed and yet had a project that was simple (so I could share it). As Einstein observed, a theory should be as simple as possible - and no simpler!

The differences between the Nomad 883 and 883 Pro are very favorable for machining but made the design very different for a dust head.

I followed your advice and deleted the secondary post and then edited the first one instead.

We don’t want people downloading files and based on the extension have software do weird things. Thanks for fixing that.

The forum will not accept uploads of any compressed format (ZIP, 7z, LHA, RAR, etc) as well as the original file format of .c2d so unfortunately I don’t see a work around at this point.

No ZIP files? I have to check that out.

… Hope that makes sense.

Yes, it does. Keep an eye on it. If the dust head rotates, the Nomad can jam - not good.

Skirts vs. brushes I believe you and have not one bit of clue which one would truthfully be better. I was just hoping that more of the suction would be forced to come through the back opening forcing more debris inward.

As I said, it’s an eternal battle. Different camps love their method and claim things work well. I’ve used both and am convinced there isn’t too much of a difference… but I find the brush a bit better. YMMV. Your reasoning is sound… but the physics is complex and surprises abound.

The dust collector is simply a shark vacuum with hepa filter.

That’s sufficient.

It will do until I can afford anything nicer.

I understand. Been there. Done that. :slight_smile:

In fact the part that feeds into the back is just for show at the moment as I’m really feeding out the front almost directly to the vacuum.

That’s fine for the non-friable materials. For friable (“easily crumbed”) materials (e.g. wood, MDF, FR4, Garolite, Fiberglass, carbon composite), one wants the enclosure closed so that the vacuum creates a negative pressure and this keeps the nasty particles inside the enclosure.

I need to make another run to the store to get a 1 1/4" hose to 1 1/4" hose connector. Right now it’s just packing tape bridging the two.

I will not share the monstrosity I used for my early tests… I understand. :joy:

mark


(TS) #41

Thanks Mark! Good information and thanks for helping me personally.

This WAS my usual mess working with a single plastic print job. Kiss those days goodbye.