2 requests, probing fix, and interface size

(Bryan A Spiegel) #1

Ive been trying to setup my 2nd project for 20 minutes. Each time the probe is not quite close enough to the bit, it travels, stops, a lot of the time just shy of touching, and then errors out, requiring a new cycle of homing the machine.

It would be fantastic if it displayed the error, and asked to continue or to restart the process, for all the axis. Im working on a large piece, and homing to the furthest front corner right now is a major PITA to keep doing!

As for the interface, running this machine (Shapeoko 3 XL) from a Microsoft Surface Pro. Lots of times, since I am using the touch interface, I have to scroll past a lot of blank space to kind of hit a button that looks like it should be the “done” but cant see it on screen. Tried to see if it would work in portrait mode, but no luck, the program refuses to display that way at all.

(Bryan A Spiegel) #2

OK, lets tack on another request to this.

Once the machine is homed, I shouldn’t have to home it again if I dont immediately run the code. Trying to sort ou why I cant set my zero via the probe for the right side of the bed, and having to home, and then try and run it back over to where I had it, fail, and re-home, makes me want to douse it with gasoline and search for a match.

Ive never had to home a machine this much, and I have 2 lasers and run cnc mills / lathes.

(William Adams) #3

An origin should be persistent once set.

I don’t have to scroll at all on my Samsung Galaxy Book 12 — what do you have your screen scaling set to?

(Bryan A Spiegel) #4

The surface pro has a smaller screen, something like 12.5", so scaling in windows is set a bit higher so you can read it without cooking your face :smiley:
As for the zero, it is not persistent at all. If you go to jog the machine, you have to re-home it. If your probing with the sensor does not find an edge (as in if you were .000001 too far away when starting) you have to re-do it all over again. For 2 cuts, I had to home around 10 times tonight.

This was also once I found out I could not set my zero to the front right corner… :face_with_symbols_over_mouth::face_with_symbols_over_mouth::face_with_symbols_over_mouth:

(William Adams) #5

My Samsung Galaxy Book 12 has a 12" screen.

You can fake setting zero in the right corner by using center in your CAD program, then putting everything in the top left corner.

(Bryan A Spiegel) #6

That wasnt feasible, since my material was larger than the bed, and sticking outside of the gantry. I was using the machine to cut some corner features for a table, ended up having to do some of them by hand because of the lack of zero flexibility.

(mikep) #7

It’s not the machine, it’s the software you are using. You’ve sort of outgrown CM and CC.

(Bryan A Spiegel) #8

Well that sucks. Its the 2nd thing Ive done with the machine other than assemble it. And my first go at 3 axis CNC (my last real go was programming gcode, line by line, in college, circa 1998).

I know Im going to have to use something like Fusion to generate my code when I get down to this things true calling for us, but, to just round a corner, cut a pocket, and route an inlet on the corner of a board? Thats some weak software.

(William Adams) #9

As has been noted previously, Carbide Create is embarrassingly simple. It’s intended to cover the basics and not much more. Carbide Motion is much the same, but additional features which make sense for a majority of our users get added as we can. Lots of 3rd party options as noted on the wiki — if you find anything which isn’t listed at: https://wiki.shapeoko.com/index.php/Software and the various topic-specific pages, please let us know and we’ll try to get them added.

(Paul Alfaro) #10

Most the software is aimed at basics and orientation suited within the working envelope.

While it would seem basic corners on a part would be simple, having them hang off the gantry and orientated differently is a bit much to ask. I do not recall seeing marketing material showing a similar ability/feature of the stock machine.

Once you get into such unique arrangements you have to look elsewhere (Fusion360/etc) for expanded abilities. Then, it’s only a limitation of work holding and setup imagination to do typical 3 axis work. This is where the forum shines in it’s wealth of knowledge to provide insight on how to do exactly what you have in mind. Again, something beyond the default software aimed at the novice individual with the standard work envelope.

IMO, the sooner you pickup Fusion and leave the stock software behind the better. It has exponential more features and is not confined to any one hardware (i.e. still apply to next CNC router/laser/etc)

(Bryan A Spiegel) #11

I get Carbide Create is simple. So far, for doing things like facing, its been OK, because those are basic things. I totally plan on doing everything in F3D moving forward.

Carbide motion is one of the places Ive had my biggest gripes. Things that I can run on other equipment (well, its not easy to pocket on a laser) just are not possible, like selecting an origin on the table to be in any corner.

I didnt pick this thing up through to have another project when it comes down to the controller and hardware. Im currently a one man automotive accessory manufacturer. Its been OK with setting up and learning curve stuff right now, because shipping slowdowns and parts availability limits order fulfillment. But hearing that the basic control software for zeroing the machine and running it is accepted as flawed… man.

(mikep) #12

It’s accepted as imperfect. It does what it says it does, and it’s a significant improvement over doing it by hand in many cases, maybe not every possible case, but many. There are other tools available, and many people use them.

If you wanted a fully integrated, capable of anything, software and hardware package, you might have been better off with Haas Mini or Tormach 1100. Of course, you’re still going to go off and learn a real CAD/CAM system like F360 to get anywhere with it (your use implies you should be paying for it), buy a rather expensive probe (4 figures), and come up with a somewhat larger investment (5 figures) for the hardware.

(Bryan A Spiegel) #13

You say this only happens with these machines because of the price point, but it does not. Ive had 3d printers (similar gcode) lasers and other sub $2K equipment that have the features I was requesting here. That’s the point of a feature request, that hopefully they say “hey, adding that additional drop-down and having the machine just flip the probe orientation isn’t too hard, and we can add screen scaling for use on more platforms without much fuss or it breaking anything”.

(mikep) #14

No 1) you can set on the right, and it’s not that hard. Saying “can’t” is just showing a lack of problem solving capability. 2) You’re assuming this is the most important thing - it’s not. 3) It’s not a laser. Z probing is actually a lot more important than x/y, and the probe works great for that - most cnc routers have no x/y probing capability at all 4) You seem to be under the impression that paying <$2k for a cnc router should entitle you to the same experiences and lack of limitations that a $15k-20k would. It doesn’t. It’s a kit, it’s a little raw in some places. It’s a great value, but it’s not for someone that is expecting an “off the shelf” experience to do everything. There is other software out there, and often offer features CC and CM do not. Complaining that CM or CC doesn’t do something you want to do, repeatedly (yes, seen the other thread), is not productive, especially when others have hand-fed you ways to do what you want.

(Bryan A Spiegel) #15

I get that z probing is more important, and know why. I thought that it was fairly basic for CNC routers, and that the point of the X/Y/Z probe was to… probe all 3. So asking for additional functionality is the point of a request.

And yes, at this day and age of $100 g code controlled machines, that move everything from bic pens to laser beams, especially when most of those machines do one or 2 things more than this, is not a crazy amount of expectation.

Heck, you think I asked for the thing to be compatible with a 4th axis or indexing table out of the box.

Hand feeding? I saw links to how to’s, that I already had looked at, and didnt apply, and wikis that didnt have info relevant to what I was trying to do, as well as saying that you can use a different control software, and appears the be more prototype than functional, and requires a lot of manual coding.

Here Im looking for 2 simple things, flipping the sensor (one of the features I bought it for since it was sold as an XYZ probe,and sold as one of the big features, as well as seeming to be in demand).

I get the price point. Its not a 14K shopbot. Maybe my requests come off as bitching. That isnt the intent. I know its not a laser… its got similar functionality (moves X, Y, and Z, and at least one of my lasers has auto probing, but not used) and uses a control suite to translate vector info into gcode to move stepper motors. Ive got 2 of them, one heavily modified from something sustainable as a medium duty business use machine. So thats my experiance for the last 4 years when it comes down to similar equipment,a nd what I base my use on. I dont expect either of them to have the functionality of the high dollar machines I learned on originally (Trotec) but did and do recommend them for the strengths they have, but also warn of weaknesses.

Same with this S3XL. Friends and customers ask what I think about my equipment, and this machine is beefy. It has a lot of great features, and has some limitations. I think a few added bits could help it along just a hair, and thats the point of the thread.

Speaking of the point of the thread, this is what the control screen looks like to me: Not finding any good way to tweak the settings or layout, and it seems to not like portrait mode at all. When a job is running, you have to grab the scroll bar to check feed rates and that it accepted any input, which is a bit less than ideal. Not sure how many others are running off a tablet, the form factor seems good for this use.

(system) closed #16

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