Buyer Beware 65 and 80 mm HDZ Spindle Mounts Tram Plate doesn't work

CNC Machines Shapeoko
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Buyers of HDZ spindle Mounts either 65 or 80mm, Please note that the description on there items are not portrayed the whole truth when you purchase these items. If you have the HDZ you get a great feature the tram plate, lets you tram left and right, works great, what an awesome feature.

Thinking that if I upgrade my spindle mount to one of these great milled works of art that you will have the same features before. Buyer beware it will not work with the Tram Plate included with the HDZ. So if you have your machine perfectly tramed before you put your new spindle mount, it will not be trammed.

Now you can tram it like old school with shims etc. I tried for 3 hours getting the front to back perfert, then try to do the left and right was almost next to impossible. I was pretty POed when I thought I had it and if you got one the other went out of alignment.

Contacting support, they basically said make sure to watch the video of Winston unscrew you whole machine to teak it back into alignment. Sorry been there done that and the old Shapeoko has some flaws in getting true even. Can’t speak for their new machines seem more ridgid.

So if you buy one of these expect the worst and good luck. I went back to the old school plate with the tram plate, got it trammed in 20 minutes in both directions with no issues.

NOTE: if you buy this and just put it on once and you get frustrated and want to return it. No worries Carbide will say no thanks its used so you now have a 80 dollar paper weight.

They represent the new spindle mount as new and improved but they took 10 steps backward. They made it much harder. They should have said in the description tram plate will not work with this mount.

The idea is to improve it not frustrate your clients.

Also the bolts are trash, the small bolts heads are soft and the strip really easy, be careful.
My recommendation stick with what works until they fix this issue.

TO me I little soar at Carbide at the moment because I have an $80 paper weight. Thanks for the hunk of aluminum that I don’t want.

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The HD spindle mounts are precision machined and should not need the tramming plate — assuming the rest of the machine is square, level and plumb.

The bolts are stainless which is softer than most other alloys used for fasteners, since many folks put their machines in garages where corrosive materials are stored (this was a frequent problem w/ SO1s and 2s).

If you need assistance squaring up your machine, let us know at support@carbide3d.com and we’ll do our best to work through that with you.

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I went through the same issue and ended up using the stock mount again as well. For me the problem was the clamping bolts have to be loosened to be able to adjust the X axis tram. This causes the router or spindle to drop all the way down. Then as you re-tighten the clamping bolts the tram changes by a few thou and with my lack of hand function I just couldn’t get it right. I started having problems with the smaller bottom bolts wanting to strip so I replaces them with grade 10 black oxide socket heads that use a bigger allen key with some SS washers.

It is a trade off using the HD mount. You add rigidity but at the cost of easy repeatable tramming.

They fixed the clamping design flaw for the new shapeoko pro mount but sadly there are no EZ tram nuts for that mounting clamp and it does not fit the HDZ.

I am going to drill and tap the spreader hole to keep my router clamped and possibly add my own Ez tram plate that bolts to the top of the mount. There are 2 open threaded holes above the mount that are just high enough to make a 90 degree bracket with slots for the eccentric nuts. For now the stock mount works and my focus is on designing and making my linear rail upgrade plates.

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It’s a custom made, precision machined, aluminum mount unlike any other.

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We removed the need for the EZTram plate with the HD mounts. This was intentional. We opened up the bolt holes a fraction and made the whole mount front mounting - this allows you to tram left to right (pitch) using the top 2 bolts just past finger tight. Front to Back back yaw hasn’t changed and can be done with shims on the X Axis. Always address yaw first then tackle the pitch.

As someone who has trammed more spindles than I care to count I can confirm this method works very well. As with all things practice makes perfect and a good tram gauge is essential.

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All find and dandy but where the video, where the explaination in the description that this will not work with the existing mount. Sorry but the original Shapeoko rigidity isn’t exactly up to par. The machine has too many variables to get the machine really square. Maybe your new machine works better but re squaring you machine come on get real. You created a work of art with the tram plate. Trust me I tried to get my machine in square by loosing the bolts and doing all the things you guys have done. It is good as it is going to get.

When I bought the HDZ with the tram plate, you guys are awesome. It allowed me to easily with in 20 minutes to get setup really. your mount is nice, but not functional. Luke I know you may done this umpteen zillion times tramming. Sorry by make it easier to do the job, you went back wards in the design.

Also I see all these comments from Carbide, it was taken away for this reason and you have to do this etc. Where is this in the description, no where to be found. I assumed you enchanced it, nope you made it more difficult plus now I am out 80 dollars.

My machine working great now with out this hunk of aluminum, because I went to what worked.

I just want my $80 back because I was dooped into thinking this would work with the existing setup.

You need to be honest in your descriptions. Tell use, you have to have your machine perfectly square for this to work, guess what its is next to impossible with the slop the shapeoko.

I still want my $80 back,

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I could never survive in the retail environment.

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Where does it say in the description that it does work with the tramming plate?

There is no need for a tramming plate when all the mounting bolts are on the front of the mount. That’s the entire point of the tramming plate is to make it adjustable from the front, something the hdz mounts do already.

Plus adding a tramming plate in only takes away from rigidity.

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It just needs the ol slap and tickle (twist and shim). If the mount doesn’t have enough adjustment, your machine just needs some love. They gave you good advice.

Also like Mr Quick pointed out, a tram plate/mount WILL be much less ridgid than a solid mount.

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Oh I have tried, I have had my machine for 4 plus years and have done a lot, twisted and and all the stuff. I was hope going from new plate would help but it didn’t. I had it trimmed great with my dewalt and went to the makita because I was wearing out the bearing on the dewalt, I run it hard. The upgrade was a down grade. Love and upgrade it has gotten but this upgrade, not so good. Now they wont take back the part because I put it on once, 80 dollar mistake.

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It doesn’t state one way or the other. You only find out what carbide intend after you call support to say why doesn’t this work, oh well we didn’t design it that way. Nice to tell me when you initially sold me the HDZ for 450 dollars with this awesome trame plate. If they are perfectly machining this part, machine the tram into the great paper weight I have now. It is what it is, now its an 80 dollar mistake because they won’t let me return it for a refund.

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It’s not a paper weight. It does exactly what it is intended to do, and does so perfectly.

The only reason the hdz comes with a tramming plate is so so you can install the factory router mount. Without the tramming plate it wouldn’t be possible to mount it without dis assembling the linear rails.

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I bet you if you put that mount up for sale on the Facebook page you could sell it for $60. People have been waiting for them.

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In my setup it is a paper weight, I do a lot of production and even if I wanted to retry and adjust my machine which I have tried and its the best its going to get. I don’t have the time to waste on it. I spent 3 plus or more hours trying to get it too work. I went back to old school and had it trammed front to back, left to right in 20 minutes. I know carbide has improved their stuff tremendously over the 4 or 5 years since I bought my machine. I can’t say I regret buying, its a great learning machine and even for what I am doing made me a lot of money to buy new tools and stuff. I can’t afford the down time. As I indicated I hope carbide some day build the tramming bolt into the mount. I would have paid more with that option. I love the HDZ, it has dramatically increased my accuracy of the Z. My original belt version when I took it off, was falling apart, best $450 spent. I probably have put 1000s of hours through my machine already and keep running probably 5 to 10 hours per week.

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I received my brand-spanking new 80mm spindle mount today (quick shipping to the UK! thanks C3D).

It’s an amazing bit of kit.

If I have these sorts of tramming issues (I suspect I’ll do the whole machine if its out, as recommended) and cannot use it, then my-oh-my - what a cup holder it will make in my Landrover! Well worth the price just for that use-case :smiley:

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It is a great piece of machined parts by C3D, but in every situation there is always exceptions to everything, in my case it didn’t work. I have had my Shapeoko for over 4+ years been a part many time trying to get it aligned, it is a true as this machine will get. To all his own, wish you the best in getting your to work. Mine I can’t afford to keep tearing it down and making adjustments when the ridgity of the machine wasn’t there in the first place. It worked before the mount, it didn’t work with the mount, so I went back to what worked and kept on cutting.

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I blame my disability more then the mount for not being able to get the perfect tram. But since you can’t get a refund perhaps you could list it up for sale and at least get some of your money back. It’s not the solution you are looking for but it is better then nothing.

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The usual truths about what you can realistically get at this price point etc. notwithstanding.

I think your use case is an amplifier for existing ‘small’ user experience issues. In software design it is common for developers to initially grumble when they are told their UI needs to take account of people with low visual acuity or colour blindness, after a while they generally realise the layout which supports tabbed movement and screen readers is actually cleaner and better for pretty much everyone.

I’ve spent quite a while whilst supervising jobs on my machine looking at the HDZ and the X beam and trying to figure out where to put some small set-screw type adjusters to allow for rotational adjustment on the HDZ spindle clamp and ‘nodding’ adjustment on the Y plates where the X beam sits which allows for repeatable consistent adjustment and positioning.

I’ve been able to tram mine pretty accurately, but not without using a reasonable range of expletives as I learned to do it. Getting the spindle vertical on the HDZ I found pretty easy, but that may have been luck. The UX could certainly be better, especially on the X beam nod. The time taken to take the V Wheels off, cut shim, re-install, re-measure etc. takes a certain kind of patience, or obsessive disorder, depending on your point of view.

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All is good now, Carbide and I have worked it out.

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what shims do u recommend?