I did quite a bit of research on here and was not able to find a definite answer to my question. I am looking into the idea of buying either a HDM or a 5 Pro. I like the HDM due to the more rigid construction and the larger water cooled spindle but I like the 5 Pro due to the larger cutting envelope… I plan to primarily cut hard alloy’s (2024 and 7075) aluminum sheet goods. But I also plan to cut some engineered plastics (Stuff like glass filled UHMWPE and Delrin) as well… I have no plans to cut any wood… I have watched some Youtube videos over the last year or two where the HDM was hogging away at some steel. Its hard to tell from a video how accurate the end product was, but it was super impressive to say the least. Can the 5 Pro cut steel as well? Is it rigid enough? Obviously the bigger footprint would reduce the rigidity and smaller air cooled spindle wouldn’t help things out either, but in hard materials I can’t see why you would ever run a large end mill unless you were doing facing operations… So I guess my question is giving the above information, would you choose the larger work envelope on the 5 Pro at the cost of rigidity or would you go with the smaller more rigid HDM? Thanks ahead of time!
My personal preference is always to go for more rigidity. If you can afford it, I would pick the HDM. The 5 Pro could do any of that, just slower.
Thanks for the information. Do you have both the 5 Pro and the HDM? Cost isn’t really driving my decision. Its more about the work envelope size. 2’ x 2’ would be better than 27" x 21". So would 2’ x 4’ and 4’ x 4’. I know the bigger you go, the less rigid the machine becomes. How much less rigid is the 4’ x 4’ than the 2’ x 2’?
I do not have either machine. I have a Shapeoko 3 that I upgraded myself to be about equivalent with a 4 Pro. I have other larger and more capable machines at my business. My comments are in general. If you can’t fit what you want to cut in the HDM then I would obviously pick one of the larger 5 Pro machines. If you want work area over everything else, get a 4x4 and be done with it. If it fits in the machine, the 5 Pro can do anything the HDM can do. It will just take longer because you can’t push it as hard.
I would expect all the 5 Pro versions to be pretty rigid for what they are. They are a moving gantry CNC router, not a milling machine. However, I would imagine that there is a significant relative difference in rigidity between a 2x2 and a 4x2 machine. I bet there isn’t much difference between a 4x2 and a 4x4. I would expect the HDM to be a significant upgrade over the 5 Pro when it comes to rigidity. Someone else will have to get you specifics. Rigidity is difficult to quantify at this level. I’m not sure you will get anything more than “the HDM is more rigid than the 5 Pro” from people on the forum.
There was a bit of discussion along these lines at:
I have a HDM and a S5 Pro.
To me, the HDM and S5 Pro are comparable machines but for two different purposes.
When we designed the HDM, it was built to be a little over the top. It was meant for non-ferrous metals, hardwood, and man-made materials—it didn’t cater for sheets so much as it has a much smaller bed that isn’t 2 or 4 feet.
The S5 Pro was built to be more ‘general-purpose’ - but big - it was always going to be a 4x4 machine. It will handle pretty much anything you throw at it, but sheet and large format material will be 95% of its use. It stands up really well against a HDM - so much so I do question the need for the HDM these days.
That said I love using the HDM, it’s my go-to but 95% of my work is aluminium - I do a little hard wood and some plastic but nothing more than the machining envelope.
The odd times I need to do sheet material, I will put it on the S5 Pro. The S5 Pro has handled everything I’ve thrown at it so far.
I’m saying this because it all depends on what you want to do. If you are going to be machining sheet material in any format, buy the S5 Pro. It will handle it with ease. There is little chance you are machining 2ftx2ft sheets of 1" steel.
If you are going to be machining metals and plastics but not in sheet format and your projects fit on a HDM I’d go with that.
I’d not compare a HDM to a 4x4 machine - I have a 30SQM shop at home, and whilst I could get a 4x4 in - I’d not have any use for the area and being 5.8" I can’t even reach the back. I’d rather have the rigidity and power of the HDM in an work envelope that matches my needs.
I have both and my answer depends on how you define “sheet”. 
To some people that means 0.063" thick. To others, that means 3/4" thick. 
If you’re talking below 1/8" thick material, and you’re mostly doing profile cuts, I’d say S5P and spindle would work well. You can easily use adhesive material holding or top clamps. The 2x4 is a highly underrated size. The S5P can get very similar results, but you may have to take slightly shallower passes and maybe one more finishing pass to get cleaner results.
If you’re talking thicker, I’d go HDM in a heartbeat. The 2.2kw spindle and adding a mister with Saunders plates makes it an aluminum and plastic beast. It usually has better finish in less time than my S5P. And if you’re doing any block material, the workholding with mod vises is so much better combined with the extra rigidity.
Thanks for the answer!. It makes sense what your saying as the HDM appears to be a very well designed rigid machine. And the 5 Pro also appears to be a very nice machine. I really want the HDM because it just looks like its more machine… The issue I am having is there are ALOT of materials available in 2’ x 2’ sizes. Including 1" thick steel plates : ) But it seems as if the 5 Pro can handle everything I would throw at it due to it being cutter limited in hard stuff. That is what I keep coming back to in my brain. The HDM would give me more rigidity and the ability to make a better part but the 2’ x 2’ work envelope of the 5 Pro is more conducive to buying “sheet” goods…
From a machine design perspective, I do have another question that I have long wondered but have never found the answer to… The HG-15 linear bearings and ball screws are mounted differently on the HDM vs the 5 Pro. Which “style” is more conducive to creating better part flatness when facing, as well as more accurate part geometry’s? I would assume the HDM design with the ball screw on top of the linear slides. But “industrial routers” seem to be more so designed like the 5 Pro with the linear rails mounted on the side in a “sideways” fashion and the ball screw mounted under it. Kinda like the Gantry minus the extra rail. I would imagine this method is less precise to the plane of the table as it’s being supported by the mounting hardware rather than the x and y table supports. (which in theory could probably be exchanged for surface ground steel/cast bar stock for even more flatness)
Obviously the HDM design is going to have a higher likelihood of getting chips on top of the liner rails and into the ball screw mechanism. But discounting this possibility, I would imagine this design would make for flatter parts.
Any thoughts?
Sheet material is more common. Once upon a time I used to buy sheet and cut it down, machine it etc. However buying stock of the right size is allot more effecitive for small batch production and proptyping unless you have the tools, space and work holding. Now I buy all my stock +5mm as I found the cutting down process labour intensive, slow and I didn’t have all the right tools. 4 Years on I’ve not looked back, the stock might cost a little more but it’s saved a huge amount of time and effort my end.
The HDM style you see - but there are a bunch of factors that also come into play so it’s not clear cut. We’ve been doing allot of testing of HDM vs S5Pro and there are close. The HDM is still the winner.
We do sheild the ball screws on the HDM for this reason, chips can still get in but it’s easy enough to clean them out on a weekly basis. Whilst the S5 has the ball screws on the side - I’d say they are equally protected. They just need cleaning in different ways.
One thing you haven’t touched on is the ball screw pitch which is 50% less on the HDM. Technically making it more accurate.
When I run the work HDM or my personal pre-production HDM, I have a tendency to make chips FLYYYYYYYYY! I’ve swept up aluminum chips 20ft away from the machine. I’d still take the HDM over the S5Pro in aluminum any day, but there is a lot of chip build-up in the Y gallies. On jobs where I remove a lot of material, I will often pause, and clean out the Y gallies and where the X homing switch is. I’ve had chips build up enough that they will cause issues with homing because they keep the machine from traveling all the way to the homing trigger point. The S5Pro can still get build-up near the X homing switch similar to the HDM, but the Y is less prone to build-up in the Y direction.
Thanks for answering my questions! It seems like you guys designed a great machine and called it the HDM and then designed another great machine and called it the 5 Pro. Most companies don’t even have one good machine. You guys have two : )
I am glad you mentioned this as I looked for the ball screw pitch as well as the step length on the HDM. But I couldn’t find either…
I saw it mentioned for the 5 Pro. (16mm diameter, 20mm pitch with custom wiper and .012mm for step length). Since the machines are listed with similar accuracy, I had assumed it used the same ball screws and stepper motors. I am stoked to hear that is not the case, as the HDM should defiantly be more accurate. As long as the resolution of the steppers are the same? That said, what are the specifications for the steppers on the HDM? I can’t find that either.
Thanks!
Thanks for your feedback! That is good information to know : )
The HDM uses 1610 and the S5 Pro uses 1620.
The HDM uses bigger motors but the same micro stepping and step count on both.
Thanks for the information!
What are the motor sizes and what are the step counts? I can’t find either of these details in the specifications…
Thanks again : )
The HDM uses 420oz, the shapeoko 5 pro motors are smaller - I can’t recall the rating off the top of my head.
On both it’s 200 steps and microstepping on the driver.
Late to the party, but here are my two cents.
I have an 1.5kw HDM and like the others said it absolutely chews through aluminum like nothing. I’ve been able to cut 1/8 aluminum sheet in 2 passes pretty fast with an 1/8 endmill and I’m pretty sure you can do it in one pass with the right feeds, although you do need coolant at those speeds.
I’ve tried mild steel and it handles it well for a hobby machine and leaves a pretty good surface finish and removes material reasonably fast, though a 1/4 endmill in mild steel seems to be its limit both spindle power and rigidity wise. I’ve been messing with some harder materials like stainless and it can do it with a smaller endmill and slow feeds.
As for the steppers I’ve pretty much never come across situations outside of crashing where they’ve skipped steps, you’re going to be limited by the spindle power more than the steppers. The y ball screws do tend to accumulate chips after some time but it’s pretty easy to clear out. I personally run mine without the outer chip gaurds which helps a bit and makes it easier to vacuum the chips up.
Accuracy wise I can hold about a thousandths in x and y across a foot on aluminum. Z varies some more just because the table my cnc sits on isn’t completely flat.
I did have quite a few problems with loose screws across my HDM upon delivery as well as some buggy software, but I did get one pretty early after it’s release and the qc possibly wasn’t a refined.
Thanks for taking the time to post this information. It is very helpful : ) It sounds like you really like the machine and it is performing well for you. This is what I keep reading over and over which is great as I am very interested in it. What I do wonder is it seems like alot of people have the 1.5kw spindle. I would think it would make more sense to buy the 2.2kw spindle if your going with the HDM for the extra power, but there has to be a reason why that is not the case? Maybe just ease of plugging in to a regular 110v outlet outweighs the added power as its not needed for most applications… But I would think the extra power would be helpful in aluminum and steel…
I have a 1.5kW HDM at home and a 2.2kW at work. I’d have 2.2 for both if I could. But you’re right in that the 1.5kW is mostly for those that don’t have 220V in their shop. If you have 220V available, get the 2.2kW for sure.
Thanks for the information!
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