Help With Advanced Vcarve Inlay

[jcarff (John Carff)]

I have a Shapeoko 3xxl, and i am using Carbide Create v764.
last year i was Use Vectric VCarve to do some Inlays and everything worked out great, perfect values for glue gap, saw gap and there was no gap in my inlay. I no longer have Vectric VCarve and i am working with Carbide Create. i have searched through many tutorials and tried everything, but nothing seems to work out properly.

I have been using some scrap hardwood and a simple shape for my tests and I have the female part cut using Advanced VCarve, a30 degree vbit, and a Max depth of .25".

After that i cut 5 different Male parts all using Advanced VCarve, the 30 degree bit, and changing the start depth, max depth, and Inlay Mode based on tutorials un the forums i have been trying to follow.

First i tried the simple Start depth 0, Max Depth .25 and checked “inlay mode” with a .02" bottom gap.
this resulted in a loose fit, with no glue or saw gap.

Then I tried another test using the inlay mode with a bottom gap of .02", but i changed the start depth to .02" as well

Again loose fit, Small saw gap, no glue gap.

Then i tried some numbers i saw in another post, no inlay mode, Starting Depth .22" Max depth .25"

VERY Loose fit with no saw gap or gue gap.

then i started playing around on my own and i got some numbers that almost work, but the glue gap is larger than i want, but i cant seem to make it smaller.

First:
Start Depth, .079"
Max Depth, .329"

OK results too large or a glue gap and larger saw gap than i wanted.

Next: i lowered the max depth a little
Start Depth, .079"
Max Depth, .289"

again Snug Fit but same glue gap and slightly larger saw gap…

I am using a 30 degree VBit with a diameter of 1/4"
I am looking for what numbers i would need if I want .02" glue gap (.5mm) and i would like .4" (1mm) to .8" (2mm) saw gap. No matter what i do the new Inlay mode does not seem to work for me.
I have measured my resulting cuts and the cut depths match what i am asking for and if i cut a 2" square my result measures at 2" so my machine seems to be accurate.

any help would be appreciated i have a few inlays i want to do, but i can’t seem to get things dialed in right.

[Spyd (Derek Mueller)]

Have you trammed and levelled your spoil board? I have done a fair amount of inlays and have had really good results using the inlay mode. Start Depth 0.00. Max depth 0.2. Glue gap on the plug: 0.01

I also use a 30 degree V-Bit which I find best for the applications.

[jcarff (John Carff)]

sometimes I hate myself… all of my inlays last year with with my 60 degree bit and Vectric VCarve were fine, but i wanted to get some more detail so i bought a 30 degree bit and and I am now using Carbide Create. I assumed the problem was carbide create… but i think its my VBit. I spent all morning running tests and making sure my machine was accurate and level and it is… then i did another test with the inlay and it didn’t work again. But… then i tried with my old trusty 60 degree vbit and everything matched up properly… then I looked at my new 30 degree vbit and even though it says on it 30 degrees. i measured it and it is 40 degrees…

[CullenS (Cullen Simpson)]

Ugh, what brand is that which we should avoid?

[jcarff (John Carff)]

i just picked the “amazon pick” as i was testing things out and didn’t want to spend to much. Just sent it back and ordered an amana as i should have in the first place. I’ve spent a week beating my head against the wall trying to figure out why things didn’t make sense.

[gdon_2003 (Guy Donham)]

As you found out you get what you pay for. I am sure some of the Amazon Picks are good but what is the criteria for an Amazon Pick. I suspect the real criteria for an Amazon Pick is which product makes Amazon the most money. Likely there is no other criteria like fitness for purpose or value for money. If the item is fit your purpose or is a good value is an accident and not intentional by Amazon. The problem with Amazon is most of their picks are no-name products may or may not be any good.

I have an array of bit OEMs like C3D, Whiteside, Cadence Manufacturing, Yonico and a few no-name ones.

The cold reality is many of the Chinese tools are made by slave labor. That labor does not really care about what they are doing just that they are doing something. The employee motivation is not there and when the wrong part gets packaged no one really cares because they had a quota of so many bits packaged and ready for shipment and what is inside is just not important to common laborer. The consequences of mistakes are disconnected from the laborer’s performance today.

This is true for a lot of Asian manufacturing. The people making and handling the tools are just disconnected from the problems they create.

[LarryB (Larry)]

I have always used the settings recommended by Garrett Fromme (adapted for how CC uses absolute depth vs relative depth for VCarve) that work perfectly. Before the Inlay feature was added I would do 0.00" start, 0.11" Max Depth for the female using a 90 V, and 0.09" start, 0.11" Max Depth for the male using a 90 V. I don’t see the need to use a 30 since all that matters for a decorative inlay is what ends up at the surface, and the steep walls from a 30 may be causing the walls to not make full contact before it bottoms out. If it is for a functional use, like a cutting board, then I can see the desire to make the inlay deeper so resurfacing the board won’t destroy the inlay but I have not experimented with that type of project.

[gdon_2003 (Guy Donham)]

Before the CC Inlay I used the Vetric method for inlay and it always worked pretty well. The female pocket started at the top of material but the male inlay started at .1". Effectively that made the inlay slightly smaller than the female pocket. I have been monitoring the CC inlay posts for some time and not convinced that their method works. Many people have reported gaps around the inlay. I need to just make a test run with various parameters to get a better understanding of what CC is really doing to the male inlay.

Anyone want to enlighten me on how the CC Inlay parameters work to get a tight fit at the surface of the material between the female pocket and male inlay?

[jcarff (John Carff)]

After getting a bit that had the right angle. everything worked out perfectly for me, probably one of the tightest inlays i have done… I used an Amana Tool 45771-K 30 degree vcarve bit. i set my start depth to 0, and my max depth to .25", for the male side i had a start depth of 0, a max depth of .25" and enabled inlay mode with a bottom gap of .02". Even simply putting the 2 pieces together by hand they stuck together nicely, you could just feel that it was a good fit. FYI.

[CullenS (Cullen Simpson)]

Looks great.

Keep an eye on that bit. I have the same one and used it to do fine lettering for some coasters made from walnut. The tip eventually rounded over. Not sure if that would impact inlays. I tried some before the inlay mode was there and could not get the results I wanted with the design at the time and have not gotten back to it yet.

[terryawatkins (Terry Watkins)]

I think that the 30 degree vee bit allows more to be cut by the first (flat ended) bit so it should theoretically be a little faster. Just guessing, have not tested this theory…