The tool path looks like it’s supposed to
I’m using a 1/16 endmill and a 25 degree Vee bit. -
3v5 x 11 inlay Male box front.c2d (2.8 MB)
On the plug, I’m setting D = 0.075 and S = 0.007 - I’ve been trying this for weeks any suggestions would be very helpful.
Adrian
What are the settings on the female/pocket side?
And does the Vee bit have a nice sharp point?
That Tod said, we can only see half of your settings in that file.
Also, I would strongly recommend you try it with a 60 degree v-bit. Not only because it eliminate any potential error from a custom-added tool, but because you have a lot of really fine, detailed bits and pieces that I can see are in danger of chipping away and breaking during machining.
Looking further at the simulation vs your end result, my guess is that your V-bit is entered into Create incorrectly. Maybe you input the “half angle” instead of the included angle. The machine is clearly removing more material than Carbide Create expected it to cut, likely because the bit is fatter than expected.
Well, I have tried it with a 60 degree bit and a 45 - I have also varied the depth and the S value - I have not been able to get anything that looks like the simulation pictures. Of course with the 60 degree, I don’t get any depth since the features are not very wide. The Female numbers for this cut are 0.0 and 0.75 -
If anyone has seen this problem - help…
If you will upload both files we can generate 3D models of them using 3rd party software to see what is happening.
Adrian, it’s not about “getting depth” in the plug, the inlay algorithm ensures that at the top surface of the inlay, there will be material. Just because a feature doesn’t stick out tall enough after carving to reach the top surface of the original material, doesn’t mean it won’t show up in the final result once you glue it up. The little peaks and ridges at the bottom of your plug are what are visible in the end. We’ve seen people do incredibly detailed work with a 60 degree V-bit. That’s not a problem.
Sorry, I tried to upload the files but the male is more than 4 Meg and the site won’t take it.
Upload to a Google Drive and share it and post the link?
Okay, this is why it doesn’t work -
v25 x 0v0625 female.c2d (44 KB)
v25 x 0v0625 male.c2d (48 KB)
These are the two files and this is what it should look like - The top of the male should be as wide as the bottom of the female - this is what I’m getting, the top of the male is almost zero in width - and the bottom is not as wide as the top - I’m using a 15 degree Vee bit and 1/16th end mill.
How is your "Vee (15 degree) tool defined?
If we change to a 60 degree #302 the preview is:
A further concern is that no Top Gap is set:
Try with a #302?
The top of the male should be WIDER than the bottom of the female. Wood will compress a little bit as it’s being clamped, so if you want a 0.010" glue gap, you need to program it with at least 0.020" gap. I would start with 0.025, so 0.100 plug depth, and 0.025 top gap.
Your pictures show very rounded corners, which indicates to me that the vee bit doesn’t have a sharp point, unless you are using the wrong vee-bit (not the same as programmed).
The 15° bit in CC is 15° inclusive (7.5° per side)
Hi Todd - I agree, and I have been trying this for weeks - This is meant to be the SAP (Simple As Possible) example. I am using
I just need to ask the obvious, can you take a photo of your V-bit to double check the angle and that the tip is in good health? And also you should double check that the tool is spinning without runout. The tip should be perfectly centered on the axis of rotation of the spindle.
The Create simulation looks perfect, though as mentioned before the settings could be improved with Top Gap, and making the plug not as deep as the final pocket. The software is doing it’s job as far as I can tell. The error must be mechanical in nature.
Hi Todd - I agree, and I have been trying this for weeks - This is meant to be the SAP (Simple As Possible) example. I am using a 15 degree Vee bit because it’s required to get any kind of depth - With a 1/16 inch wide slot - a 15 degree can cut to a depth of 0.25" - 25 degree can only cut to a 0.125" inch, and a 60 degree can only cut to 0.05" - Most of my cuts are less than 1/16" so you can see why a narrow bit is essential…
Unfortunately, when the male cut is less than half the design width, it affects the results, and this is especially an issue if using a higher degree bit.
The result of cutting really looks as if you described the tool as being more acute (say 15 degrees) than it actually is (30 degrees).
You don’t need to get depth — it’s okay for a small/narrow/detailed area to be pushed into a matching area — the design will show from the bottom of the inlay part when the inlay is faced off.
Of course, that was my first thought also, but the amazon page said it was 15 degrees - Well, don’t trust amazon, so I measured it - I think that’s 15.
I don’t need a lot depth, but I need some, and it doesn’t help go with a bigger Vee - The problem is the male cut is turning out smaller than it should - the top of the male board should be the same size as the bottom of the female cut - It’s not.
I don’t completely understand the program, but it might be that the bigger the S value, the wider the bottom of the male should be. I would think the bigger the S value, the tighter the fit. If I make the S value considerably larger and the D value be smaller, it should make the male part bigger - I shouldn’t have to do that, but I have to get this project done, and that may necessary as a fix until something better is available.
Please post a screen grab of the “Edit Tool” window so that the tool can be re-entered, and re-created, as well as a link to the company’s product page.
In the meanwhile, please try a test w/ a #302.
It appears to be a bit less than 15°, and doesn’t come to a point. Missing the point will cause the tool to remove a little bit more material than programmed. Leaving the female too big, and the male too small.
I have tried this cut with lots of bits - yes, the one in the picture is an old one and the tip is broken off - The one I cut the project with was brand new, and the tip of the bit was less than 0.001" wide as measured under my microscope. That’s not it.
I have measured the diameter of the hole inside and out on both the male and female cuts - The posts are 0.023" to small and the cuts are 0.019" too big, leading to just over 0.040" of slop in the fit. This seems to be the case no matter the bit I’m using. This seems to be the case with all bits I use. I chose the 15 degree to some depth on the smaller features.
I was thinking maybe the issue was the bearings in my motor were soft and I was getting bit wobble - but I ran a pocket on the male and female with a 1/32" end mill and the dimensions came out perfect, and with a little push, they fit perfectly.
This is my tool edit for the 15 degree bit - If I did something wrong, Please let me know… I’m wondering if I called it a 20 degree bit and used a 15 it might just work…
I also thought, if I declared S to be bigger on the male, but reduced the D it would tighten the fit, but didn’t seem to work or at least it wasn’t enough to get a tight fit.
