Interested in the XXL

LiamN · June 5, 2020, 1:00pm

I find myself sitting and watching it just because I like watching it, it’s not really a hardship and much of the time you’re watching to see if the changes you made to how you CAM based on what you learned last time have worked.

If I have a part that I’m cutting multiples of, once I’ve seen the whole job run clean on the first (or a cheaper piece of stock for test) part I generally turn on the dust extraction, stick the ear protection on and do some other work in the workshop whilst listening for any bad sounds and periodically checking that everything looks OK. I have not walked away and left the machine running but it doesn’t stop me planing, sanding, doing something else at the same time.

I have a nasty shop vac with some fairly cheap 50mm PU hose to a dust hood on my spindle via a $50 cyclone settler from Amazon, it’s the noisiest part of the setup but it does a decent job of getting the chips and dust off the workpiece.

I like Mike’s outfeed table (not just because it’s nicely made) but be careful of clearance height above the unit if you want to attach extraction or if you want room to upgrade the spindle etc. That said, it’s a good compact solution and if you move the machine you have a nice big shelf still. That sort of table also lends itself really well to being boxed in as an enclosure.

Anything that is flat, level and reasonably rigid will do, the machine only sits on four little adjustable feet as stock anyway, just be careful that the support doesn’t flex or let the machine move around or it’ll be hard to keep things square and level.

I really didn’t like the constant whine of the router cooling fans so I got a water cooled spindle. I find that I really don’t mind the cutting sounds, they’re quite variable, It’s the constant drone sounds that irritate me. Lots of folks have had success making their router less whiny with fairly simple hood enclosures over their machines.

The points about learning curve are solid, but like learning to use any new tool, you develop skills with it and get better and that is rewarding in itself.

MrGNY · June 5, 2020, 1:41pm

I took a shelving unit from a big box store and split it in two to creat a 4x4 table. The XXL sits on top, I have tools stored underneath on the shelf’s. The computer is on a small workbench to the left.

For the dust collection I use my Delta dust collector, it’s not to loud. The machine itself isn’t that loud compared to a router table.

Vustadumas · June 5, 2020, 4:59pm

This is exactly what I had in mind for the outfeed table, Mike. Thanks for the link.

Guy, thank you for the candid response! Fire is always a concern, so that totally makes sense. I wouldn’t leave the machine running and go out to dinner or anything, hah. And yes, I have a fire extinguisher in the shop! I have a few Festool vacs, and I could dedicate one to the XXL. My DC is 1500 CFM rated, so seems that’s overkill for this, hah. Maybe if it added some down draft, that would keep the tiny, dangerous particles at bay a bit more, but if I enclose it, then I think that would do the same job. The Festool vacs do a great job with dust collection, especially with my Festool tools. I’ll still add a 6" port to the outfeed table, if I go that route.

I’ll admit, my foray into CNC is in it infancy. Apologies if I sound naive, hah. You see so many content creators using CNC, but you never see the process exactly. I realize it’s not an easy to use tool, and the learning curve is high. I work in 3D software (Maya) for a living, so I’m very accustomed to 3D and 2D design. It’s just learning the new software that will take a bit of time. I grabbed the free pro license of CC and have been poking around, while watching Winston Moy’s videos. I’m not expecting to put this together and be off to the races. I understand the time investment.

As for sound deadening, I have a 1 year old, that’s right above my garage shop. My shop time is mostly after she falls asleep. I can run most power tools, but my dust collector, since it’s wall mounted, produces a bit more noise. So noise is a large concern, not only for my hearing, but for my daughter’s well-being and night time sleep. I always wear hearing protection, but as others have mentioned, its the drone of the sound that gets annoying, but this seems like a lesser concern now that I’m sure my Festool Vac will suffice.

Gary, that’s awesome! I envy your wood storage, hah! Here’s a (bad) picture of my garage shop.

I’ve since sold off the Woodpeckers router table and went with the inline Sawstop RT. Saves a ton of room, and lets me gang the MFT table with the bandsaw and table saw. Shop layout is one of those things that keep evolving.

Thanks, Liam! I’ll have a look at the water cooled spindles and see if its something that I might add in the future.

Tex, I don’t have to go far! It’s right inside my garage

LEER007 · June 7, 2020, 1:43am

Corey:

I have a very small shop as well, so I built a hinged wall mounted torsion box. I have had no problems when raising or lowering it or with any squareness. I do tie the X-Axis to the front of the bed before raising so that the X-Axis does not move raised nor does it have pressure on it.
I also have a pull-out laptop tray in the front right and side.
I love the XXL, you should pull the trigger.

Lee

Vustadumas · June 7, 2020, 4:57am

Lee, that looks like a great solution. How does it look folded up? I bought some extra materials today for a torsion box and cabinet. I think the outfeed table route makes the most sense for me. I’ll build it exactly like I built my miter station. It’ll do triple duty. Keeps the CNC always usable, but out of the way. An outfeed table for my table saw (I’ll have to sell my Sawstop outfeed table), and an assembly table. Sounds win-win to me.

Now, to figure out exactly what I need it to be. Once I get it close to built, I’ll smash that order button!

RoughDraft40 · June 7, 2020, 8:39am

There are a lot of great suggestions here. Nice shop Corey! I think for someone with a long track record of woodworking and 3D design, your progress with a CNC router will be quicker than most.

Another angle I thought should be presented is that of the XL. I think the XXL is a great value and makes it easier to do larger projects; and certainly if you’re doing large projects all the time, have the space, and have the funds then by all means get the XXL. While the XL is half the working space, unlike with the standard sized SO3, you can complete XXL sized projects on the XL by tiling (@WillAdams mentioned tiling in his post) which is basically indexing your work piece and segmenting toolpaths. People even tile on the XXL - check out @cme82883’s awesome submission in Community Challenge #9.

I’m not trying to walk you off the ledge of an XXL - simply thought that this option was worthy of mentioning. The money “saved” could be spent on cutters, work-holding, accessories, and materials.

Happy making!

GJM · June 7, 2020, 1:33pm

@LEER007 Hey Lee…that looks like a great solution! I like the way you cantilevered the fulcrum to allow it sit flush against the wall. How much room does it save you when it’s raised? Looks like it gives back about 2x3 feet of space? Also, is there enough room to accommodate an HDZ or ZPlus, should you decide to go that route? I’d imagine the clearance for the top of the router would be impacted by one of those.

I bought my XXL during the second half of last year, and love it (more and more, as I learn how to use it more accurately and efficiently). I was originally thinking of storage alternatives to free up shop space (including lifting it to the ceiling), but hadn’t thought of the “Murphy Bed” approach…Very clever!

For me though, and as a consideration for Corey (@ [Vustadumas]) https://community.carbide3d.com/u/Vustadumas) it started to become obvious that I was going to use the CNC for every project, whether making integral parts or just burning my logo into a rail - or bottom of a piece, so dedicating a permanent 4x4 space made sense. I just found ways to move the other junk that was there to homes in other parts of the shop. Besides, I also found that I needed additional storage for the bits, dust collection, laser, clamps, and fixtures - and found that under the table was the most convenient…so…permanent it is!

This was my set up before the laser and the cabinets for storage underneath and the bitsetter (this is a passion that goes on and on):

Gary

LEER007 · June 7, 2020, 1:51pm

I have two pictures here that might help. When I fold the table I make sure the X-Axis is all the way forward as it give you the most clearance when folded. Also I have a shelf that is in the way up on the wall so mine does not go 100% vertical. On the wall bracket the circled point is where I have a pin that I insert to keep the table folded. Notice the square area, that 2x4 is flat rather than horizontal. The table back when down hits that board and that is what keep it flat when down. The extra support in my previous picture was to make my son feel better as he thought there was too much pressure on that back piece, but it is only there for safety.

gdon_2003 · June 8, 2020, 2:15am

I have an XXL and love it, however I have not made any projects that take advantage of the full 32x32 footprint. Most of my projects have been boxes and v carving on box lids. I like having the XXL but I think an xL would work just as well for me. My table is 48x48 that the XXL sits on and takes up a lot of room in my shop. Everything in my shop is on wheels. My Powermatic 66 is on wheels but only get moved about one a year to clean under it. Everything else is on wheels and I generally bunch them all up on one spot and pull out what I need to the center of the shop or outside under my covered patio. Even if you have a permanent spot for a piece of equipment the flexibility of rearranging or cleaning makes the wheels a good option.

Vustadumas · June 8, 2020, 3:24am

Definitely, Guy! I really like having all my tools mobile, even if I don’t move them that often. I even welded wheels to my MInimax FS41 Elite j/p combo machine. That thing is about 1100 pounds, but I can easily roll it around. This outfeed table will be no different. It will have wheels of some sort, but most of the time will sit on the leveling feet.

I’m about 60% through modeling out what I need. Somewhat based on Mike’s link above, but bit less room for drawers, as I want to keep good head room above the spindle in case I decide to later upgrade to something larger.

I’m stoked to get building on this table. The faster it’s built, the faster I can order the XXL.

Falcmike · June 8, 2020, 5:04am

Yeah I think that’s a smart approach to maximize space for the CNC over drawers, I just bought an HDZ after a lot of measuring to figure out whether it was possible to add the necessary clearance with what I’ve already built - turns out I can do it, but just barely. If I were to rebuild my enclosure I’d make more room for the CNC in every dimension - right now I have just enough room to operate the CNC and perform most routine maintenance (v-wheels, belts, etc.) and it’s a little frustrating to not have more space.

I don’t think I could fit a spindle in my enclosure, based on the pictures I’ve seen with all the cabling extending out vertically. Table saws being around 3’ tall is the main constraint, but if your torsion box is short that could be reasonable.

LiamN · June 8, 2020, 12:52pm

So long as you strain relieve the cabling and hoses at the flex points there’s no reason not to put 90 degree elbows into the coolant pipes and one, fixed bend into the power cable out of of the router and then run the plumbing away horizontally from the top of the spindle and around to pick up on the drag chains.

Vustadumas · June 9, 2020, 9:09pm

Hit the order button last night! Got the XXL, BitSetter, BitZero and the previously ordered BitRunner, and the track and clamp kit. Also, snagged the starter end mill pack. I’ll be using my Makita router. Anything else you’d suggest?

Finished up the torsion box / cabinet base last night and milled up the legs for the outfeed table, and the glue is drying. It’ll come together pretty quick now. My plan for enclosing it, will be with 3/8 or 1/2" window grade plexiglass, that will sit in a small rabbet around the outsides of the cabinet. My model looks like it will work, but reality likes to have a different plan sometimes, so I’ll keep that idea loose for the moment. Biggest design discision is how the plexiglass on the front of the cabinet will sit, as my upper table top will lift to expose the full bed of the XXL. I could have it sit proud of the legs to fill a rabbet in the top, and not seal it shut, so that its removable when I need access.

I’m excited to get this thing! Thanks again for all the guidance and words of encouragement! I think I’m going to like it around here

WillAdams · June 9, 2020, 11:02pm

Some links/lists on this at:

https://wiki.shapeoko.com/index.php/FAQ#What_else_do_I_need_to_operate_a_machine.3F
and
https://wiki.shapeoko.com/index.php/FAQ#Other_things_needed.2Fother_considerations

Lowbrowroyalty · June 10, 2020, 2:15am

Being a woodworker, you might have these - But If you don’t have a dial or test indicator, these can be quite useful. Magnetic articulating base to make life simple. 123 blocks are also useful for many things. All of which can be helpful during initial setup of your new machine, maintaining your machine, zeroing stock, diagnosing issues ect. No practical need for anything but cheap examples for this machines purpose.

Julien · June 10, 2020, 6:27am

While you wait for your machine, you may be interested in that introduction to using a Shapeoko.

Vustadumas · June 15, 2020, 11:22pm

Got the outfeed table built and (mostly) ready for my XXLs arrival tomorrow. Slightly modified version of what Mike initially sent. I went with less drawer space and more headroom for the XXL and any future spindle upgrades.

48x48” base for the XXL.

Vustadumas · June 16, 2020, 4:42pm

Matched it up to the rest of my shop furniture with a light stain to knock down the brightness of the birch ply. Pops out the walnut and mahogany bits too. Needs 1 more coat of poly and its fully ready to go!

dandangerous · June 16, 2020, 6:36pm

I built a folding torsion table. This was meant for a smaller machine, you can find some basic plans and variations searching for xcarve folding torsion table. Credit to Targ’s Workshop and his great video showing how it worked. Found some basic plans he posted that I modified for my set up.

The XXL is quite a bit heavier. I added front and rear rails I bolted the machine to them after it was square and level. This holds it in place. I’ve folded it up and down numerous times with no issues to “squareness” (is that word - lol) or tramming. Also added additional reinforcement on the pivot axis and shifted where the pivot was to make the rotation easier. It is heavy to lift, but not unreasonable.

Pulleys would have to have a heck of a system, it is really heavy. If you’ve ever used pulleys to hang a canoe or similar, it’s a lot of work. I’d estimate the torsion box and the CNC add up to 200lbs.

Vustadumas · June 16, 2020, 7:00pm

That’s a pretty sweet setup, Dan! That was my initial idea, was to wall mount it on a hinge, but I worried the weight of the machine would be too much on the rails and scraped the idea.

I’m really happy with how my outfeed table turned out. My old foldable Sawstop outfeed table just took up valuable space, with out any benefits of other use. Now I have a decent sized assembly table, drawers to store all the CNC bits, and a permanent home for the XXL, that has easy access to it.

Awaiting the delivery truck today