OK so I do have some ideas however I thought I would run things by the experts here I am not a finishing expert
So I was asked to make some signs for a Disc Golf Coarse . Cedar is what I am using. 2" tall block letters.
First attempt/test was not too bad but there was paint bleed. I carved out the letters, no sealer, and then used the black paint I had in the cabinet, brush on Tremclad. I figured it is oil base and it is quite thick therefore less bleed. I just painted in the letters with a small brush, thinking I would sand off any oopses. Which I did. However as you would guess as I sanded down removing the surface over paint. it also revealed paint bleed from the exposed end grain of the letters. I finished it with tung oil. it looked pretty good but still some paint bleed. OK from a distance though
Yes I could use sealer and a mask, carve, seal again, then paint, then sand . Seems like a lot of fussing around and cost for a simple project.
Some of my thoughts were:
Most sanding sealers are not rated for out doors. or at least not the ones I have.
I want to finish with oil and I want it to soak in bringing out the grain. I assume any sanding sealer might effect that. And even if I sand the top layer off, it would still bleed like the paint in the end grain of the letters. so instead of black bleeding. I would have light colour bleeding where the oil can not penetrate. This might ( I have not tried ) be worst as sanding sear is generally thinner and designed to soak in deeper. Therefore deeper bleed showing.
In my experience sanding sealer reduces the amount of stain or oil that can be absorbed into the grain, so it is not as blotchy but you don’t get that dark deep grain look either. A bit of a trade off.
I could treat it with the finishing oil first but it takes so long to dry before I could sand it without gumming up the sand paper.
I could use a thick Varathane to paint the letters first with a brush. Then paint black over it, sand the top and coat the rest with oil. Varathane is more of a top coat product and does not penetrate that deep without thinning.
So I am looking for a balance that looks OK without spend much money on masks and other products. It is just an outdoor sign on a “volunteer” ran disc golf coarse.
I typically use a spray on Shellac first to seal the grain. Then paint the lettering and sand the top. Seems to work well with very minimal to no bleeding. I like using the Rubio Monocoat Hybrid Wood Protector to coat my exterior wood signs. I use “Pure” which brings out the grain and keeps the natural colour of the wood bu they also have many different color variations if you prefer.
Despite all of your protestations to the contrary, a simple shellac coating after cutting the letters through a mask layer would have placed your sign out on the course by now.
LOL, yes that is true
I did look into Shellac. I have no experience with it and found myself getting quite confused. I assume they used to sell waxed and dewaxed. Now its sanding sealer and wood sealer or… , or flakes you mix and Zinsser seems to have upgraded their labels. So you have Youtube videos with the old labels but what I can buy now looks different
I will have to revisit it. And I will have to look up “Rubio Monocoat Hybrid Wood Protector”, I see it is made from Linseed Oil.
I didn’t want to buy and test, buy and test, repeat. I thought it better to just ask Thanks
The Zinsser shellac is with wax, I think even the spray can. It will seal just as well but there are some top coats that are not friendly with the wax so some people will use dewaxed to seal and o oh use waxed when using it as the top coat.
I think the Zinsser sanding sealer is just dewaxed shellac. I have always used the waxed version either from the spray can or brush on from the other and never been disappointed. I don’t typically use that for an outside finish though. So if you have a different top coat go for dewaxed.
Shellac is super easy and forgiving to apply. If you brush it on you may want to thin the mixture from the can as much as 50% with denatured alcohol.
@CullenS
Thanks
Yes you can see my confusion.
Zinsser also uses the word universal which I assume means it can be top coated with just about and base which I then assume that means dewaxed. Oy vay
Hmmm just looked it up again and seem a bit hard to find in my area, Canada. Oh Well
Zinsser Bulls Eye Sealcoat Shellac Base Universal Sanding Sealer, I see two different labels and one defiantly says 100% wax free.
More confused LOL
Thanks. I will try looking into more when I have some more time.
The dewaxed version of Zinsser is Universal Sanding Sealer. People here on the forum swear that the Zinsser Shellac (waxed version) works to take finish but I will not take the chance that using the waxed shellac would cause the finish to not stick.
Thanks. @gdon_2003 just having a hard time finding a good supplier in Canada. Same for denatured alcohol in Canada. I have found many forms talking about the same issue. The word seems to be that the Canadian Gov has an issue with ethanol but not as much so with the more nasty methanol ??? I guess a road trip over the boarder is coming up in my future only 30 minutes
Thanks @Tod1d Yep I guess since Shellac is difficult to find here, I might have to experiment a bit
Fellow Canadian here who found himself in the same boat, the premixed shellac options are pretty limited. I finally took the plunge and started mixing my own from flakes and its been working out really well. I used 99% isopropyl alcohol and dewaxed flakes from Lee Valley. The great thing about mixing it yourself is you can mix up just what you need so you know its always fresh. The stuff in the can can be hit or miss if you dont know how long its been sitting on the shelf for.
Awesome. That is great info thanks. Yes I have seen the flakes at LV and I actually use 99% isopropyl all the time. (3D printing and cleaning electronics) I was wondering if that was an option. Glad to to know.
I cut then seal with 2 coats of spray can shellac.
Then paint with latex paint. When dry, recoat with shellac, sand, and finish coat with minwax poly.
Zero bleed!**strong text!
I am going to have to make a run across the bored or use flakes as it seem Canada has a problem with Ethanol based produces. ( I assume they are afraid we will purify it and drink it ) but nasty Methional is OK
Your suggestion might work but usually you need to overfill epoxy because it shrinks when it drys. Additionally you would have to be perfect to get the epoxy level or just a slight overfill without over flowing on to the painted surfaces.
I agree with outdoor paint. Oil based if possible. Another thing about epoxy is it shrinks and contracts at a different rate then the wood. Eventually the epoxy could fall out of the carving.
I am currently working on a sign for the Stone Fort which is a historical site on the El Camino Real de los Tejas. The site is on the SFA campus and will be 72" Wide X 42" Tall from locally cut cedar. Currently it is going through the approval process with the historical authority and then must go through the University approvals. This is a mock up and am waiting for the correct fonts and a high resolution logos of the El Camino Real de los Tejas logos.
I am not a finishing expert 
