I’ve had the HDM in my cart for a few weeks now but then came upon the Stepcraft M1000 with ATC for a similar price.
What’s everyone’s thoughts on the M1000 compared to the HDM ?
Just looking at the specs (the Stepcraft isn’t a bad machine):
Adding the Hiwin ballscrews and the non-atc spindle to make it as analogous as possible to the HDM, puts it at a similar price. Adding the ATC makes it $1,000 more than the HDM.
The steppers on the Stepcraft are less powerful. They are analogous to the ones used on the Shapeoko 3/4/4Pro/5Pro. The HDM steppers are also run on 36 volts, so not only are they larger with more torque inherently, but the extra voltage adds to that. I’m guessing that the Stepcraft is 12v or 24v. Their specs don’t specify voltage.
The frame is less sturdy. Looking at their profile view, the HDM uses MUCH thicker extrusion, that is then machined.
The base spindle on the HDM is 50% more powerful. The optional 220v, 2.2kw is WAY more powerful.
What materials will you be machining?
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You are asking your question in the wrong place. Of course the HDM. The Stepcraft is likely a good machine. The parts are made in Germany and they advertise it is assembled in Connecticut. One thing to think about is Germany (like us) is in the grip of an energy crisis. Plus they are about to go into recession. Those two things together could mean support issues and long term viability for your machine if the makers of Stepcraft go away from all the economic issues in the EU. The same thing could happen to C3D but there is a much larger base of Shapeoko machines in the US over Stepcraft.
Trying to look into a crystal ball for economic forecasts is dangerous. However I dont think it will take a Nobel Prize Economist to figure out the EU is trouble. Germany is the strongest economy in the EU but with their energy shut down industry will shut down to keep homes warm. But if you dont have a job how will you pay for your heating? The Germans have a reputation for quality and the Stepcraft may be a good machine but the head winds are too great to be buying a maybe.
My $.02 or the current USD to Euro €.02
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Very valid points.
I was told that the operating system for the HDM is limiting and I should look at UCCNC systems as opposed to the carbide warthog. Ie: no tool changer etc.
I plan on cutting wood and some aluminum.
I do not have an HDM but in general, GRBL is pretty limiting when it comes to these nicer machines. The HDM will be more rigid than the Stepcraft but you are on your own when it comes to adding an ATC which would require a new controller and all the supporting hardware and software. I would guess about $2,500 minimum to properly add all that. More likely $4,000+ to do it well enough to match the excellent platform of the HDM.
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That’s what concerns me.
The HDM is a better made machine but the software is limiting long term as I grow with it.
My background:
I worked in aerospace CNC machining for almost a decade as a set-up/proofing/production operator. I bought a SO3 over 6 years ago and taught myself Fusion 360. I now work at a university in the school of medicine machine shop. Most of the work I do now is prototyping for medical instruments, medical experiments, and the like.
My opinion on ATC on a machine that isn’t a full machining center:
I don’t get it. I kinda doo, but I really don’t. I have literally made experimental parts for multi-million dollar proton therapy cancer killing machines and an experimental nuclear reactor with my HDM. Some jobs required 6 tool changes. But that was the part of the program that took the least amount of time. I’m genuinely curious as to what the perceived advantages of adding $4-$5k in machine cost and a lot of complication, are for a HDM customer. And I have seen what a tool holder does to a steel enclosure if for some reason the spindle didn’t clamp it right. Don’t get me wrong, I love ATC on the vertical mills I’ve ran, and I love to tinker. But I have yet to run a part, or small batch of parts that hade me going “Man, spending $4-$5k and tens of hours of my time would really help in a tangible manner over a BitSetter.” I do long for a controller that lets me do work and tool offsets. Not to mention a 4th axis ( I really want to make custom lightsaber hilts) But honestly an ATC, or most things GRBL doesn’t allow, are much lower on my list and would have less effect on my ability to make kick-arse stuff, than good lube/chip evacuation, good tooling, good fixturing/workholding, and other factors.
But that’s just my personal thoughts from my personal experiences. I know @Luke likes to make more awesome machines, than even I do. So I’m 100% not surprised he has built a machine with a 40k spindle, servos, and ATC. 
I would also get in line for an ATC that was part of a kit that didn’t involve me spending tens of hours on research, tens of hours on programming, then tens of hours on implementation. 
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So we all know I love a custom build…
I think I have now used pretty much every controller in the consumer space for cnc control. The one thing I come back to is GRBL. It’s great. It does what it says it will do and it does it well.
I actually have a VMC that running UCCNC, and it was very nice bit of kit. There are some draw backs and truthfully I’m about to pull the controller off and replace it with something else.
Here are some observations on the M1000 and Uccnc.
- I don’t find UCCNC user friendly
- UCCNC is not designed to be programmed by the average user, macros are script
- Stepcraft put their own UI over uccnc, which is nicer but dated compared to the full UI. I think they also strip out some function.
- The tool change function is great but due to changing bits/holders pretty much every time I turn it on I need to measure all the tools again
- All in, and unless you are running the same production job over and over again I don’t think there is any real time saving - the best part of the tool changers is having power drawbar
- The M100 tool changer is basic, it doesn’t use DAC’s and is only good for wood work.
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Any thoughts yet on what flavour of something else?
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Interesting and thanks for your trusted feedback.
I had off the past couple days and have been researching aloooot.
Every time I keep coming back to the HDM for its reliability and the build quality for the money. Having said that, I’m going with the HDM.
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The Stepcraft Atc vs HDM is an apples to oranges comparison with the SC Atc spindle being just a bolt on nose adapter with tiny tool holders and the motion system being powered by less powerful steppers. The work load difference between a 2.2kw HDM or even a 1.2kw So5 will out perform the M1000 in machining time with their ability to run faster with a larger chip load.
You will have to sacrifice Atc for a giant gain in cutting ability or sacrifice cutting ability for Atc it depends on what you plan to machine and what is more important to you.
I want to add Atc to my HDM and one day that will happen but it’s more to accommodate my disability / total lack of finger function that will reduce my tool change headache time from a few minutes to seconds.
Like Luke said
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Agreed. Very insightful and true. I will be honest, the ATC was one of the reasons I looked at the M1000 but since these facts, I have changed back to the HDM.
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Are you running a job shop or is this a hobby? What percentage of your projects will be spent cutting wood vs. aluminum. Have you considered the Shapeoko Pro 5?
I’m just a maker working out of my garage. I’ll be cutting 80% wood and the rest acrylic and alum.
Sounds like we have very similar workflows. I was also considered the HDM and stepcraft . In the end I ended up going with the shapeoko pro 5. Just curious if you considered the Shapeoko pro 5?
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I did look at the 5 but like the solidness and components of the HDM. Maybe I’ll reconsider it.
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I dont know if stepcraft is a good machine, but i do know if you ask them enough questions before sending them $25k for a loaded q408 they start frothing at the mouth and calling you names like petulant children. And Im glad they do, because that saved me $25k and I will tell you, they will sell you something that is not complete (which is why we had our little spat) and then act like youre the moron who didnt know better. I would not buy a screwdriver from stepcraft just based on their ability to answer questions and eal with customers professionally. All that said, I DO wish I had an ATC and I dont need anybody else telling me I dont need it. I live in texas where we still live how we want. 
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all that said, C3D is above and beyond the best value even if they didnt have the best support system on the planet, which they do. PLUS they have josh and they should probably send him a check for all the help he gives for free
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Yup. I’m going with the HDM.
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I’m from Texas (born in Garland, raised in Farmer’s Branch), and I too like to do what I want. But I’m also pretty utilitarian and like to put efforts towards things that help me more, first. 
And again, if there was (as much as possible) a PnP ATC system, I’d put my name on that pre-order list. I just have no desire to spend more time and money on an ATC system, than I would get back. But like I said, just my opinion on my experience.
And as I always disclose, C3D is good to me. They realize the effort that goes into fostering a cool community, as they do here. They don’t pay me directly per se, but I do get machines as compensation for my effort, and honestly…that makes me happier than money. They are actually really cool people to chat with. I enjoy nerding out with @wmoy about CNC, space stuff, and making fun of him every time he admits additive is cool. @Luke and I chat frequently and if I make it across the pond, pints are in order. My conversations with @edwardrford, @robgrz, and @Jorge have always been fun and productive. So the C3D staff make it easy to be enthusiastic.
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