I think @SLCJedi said it pretty well in regards to the masso controller, and probably the ATC as well.
Personally I love the simplicity of the current carbide motion and controller the vast majority of the time, but when I want/need those extra features it sure would be nice to have. If I could get a 4th axis, closed loop steppers and more of the advanced software controls but with that Carbide3d touch, I would be like Fry in Futurama, “shut up and take my money!”
When it comes to an ATC, they are nice, but so much more is needed with them to actually complete the system that I don’t think they are really feasible even as a small home business/advanced hobby. At the point that you actually need one, you should probably be looking elsewhere. But thats just what I think.
EDIT: and for what it’s worth, in the photography world it is/has been normal for companies to release and future lens roadmap. Letting customers know what to expect in the coming years.
Here’s my 2 cents worth. I’ve owned a shapeoko for a year and a half now and i love it. Its bear bones get you up and going and follows the kiss method.
Keep It Simple Stupid! Ill proudly admit im simply a hobbyist, and not some production manufacturer like 1 of my subcontractors who owns and operates a cabinet shop. (Btw he has a legacy mill that happened to give me a small chubby when i seen it, has all the bells amd whistles you all are crying about but at 50k… Nevermind!!) i have a small woodshop that i create what i want when i want, how i want and this machine has been a massive game changer. My creative freedom and precision has been limitless. Also my background with Autocad over the past 15+ years has been invaluable. For an enty level machine carbide3d has done an excellent job in my opinion. If you all desire said tool chamger in the topic they why not get what you want? Seriously there’s many other cnc mills out there that offer just that. So what are you all afraid of the most, your pocket book or breaking a fingernail by getting your hands dirty and changing a bit???
I think so too. The brand they created is clearly aimed at newcomers to get up and running quickly and with as little disappointment as possible. Adding complexity would go against that.
I doubt lack of knowledge and talent is the limiting factor for a Shapeoko having an ATC. I would rather say it’s wisdom. My impression is that they would rather error on the side of safety.
Even a small tool holder has a TON of inertia at 24,000 RPM. And a single chip on the taper or loss in air pressure is the difference between things going 100% to-plan and a (nearly) literal missile flying across your shop with enough force to puncture the human body with ease. In that video I don’t hear any air hissing during a tool change, which tells me it doesn’t even have a blower in the taper to remove chips, which 100% will get on the tool holders with the retracting cover that is also missing. The content creator also doesn’t specify if the system has a safety shut-down in the event of an air pressure loss. There is also no enclosure.
I consider minimum safety precautions to be a retracting cover for the tool rack, air blast in the taper, air pressure loss shut-off, and an enclosure with good structure and minimum 1/4" thick polycarbonate.
Most tool holders are not balanced to 24,400 RPM either…especially ones that are in the acceptable price range us enthusiasts are willing to fork out for. So plan on a few hundred for a properly machined and balanced tool holder…per tool.
I dunno. I’ve worked in aerospace as a machine operator and have seen what a CAT30 tool holder at 7,000 RPM does to 1/4" steel when the machine lost pressure and tossed the tool in the enclosure. I don’t want that in my life. I like a little danger, but am not there.
just to clarify, while there are lots of designs and dangerous aspects to using an ATC, I see a similar theme in many of the comments, “I’ve seen the damage an X does when the machine loses pressure and tossed the tool from the spindle…”
I have a Jianken spindle and you may have seen my ATC setup in my video (Rethinking the Carbide3D Shapeoko HDM, starting from the ground up and adding ATC & 3D Probing! - YouTube) based on the documentation and functionality of the pneumatics in the Jianken spindle, compressed air is not what holds the tool holder in place, it is used to activate and deactivate the drawbar but pressure from a mechanical load and pull stud actively retain the tool holder.
Sure there are other uses of air during operation, but not generally critical, functional aspects of the tool retention mechanism.
but sure, it doesnt hurt to cover all your bases with bullet proof enclosures and other safety mechanism, just do your research and don’t predicate your entire solution requirements on the the comments (including this one) in any given forum.
just my two cents.
Be Safe, Have Fun!
The Laguna iQ Pro has this feature but starts at $14,495. Just one decent tool holder with a decent collet will cost an additional $350. The HDM starts at $5,400. I think C3D has a business model that targets a market sector that cannot afford nor wants to spend the difference between the two. I have many machines at work with all types of tool changers and they do fail. (operator error mostly) In some cases, this requires a service tech to come on site to repair and or replace parts. All this at $200.00 dollars an hour plus expenses. The machines designed by C3D were not intended for commercial use (not that they couldn’t be) but for the hobbyist and curious folks that just want to create. The HDM starts down the commercial use road, but stops short of non value added features (for intended market sector) that will only complicate the use and operation of the machine as well as add undo technical support by their staff. If you want a machine with ATC, they are out there. Buy one. If you want to spend a ton of money, time and effort reverse engineering what many others have already done (at a much lower cost) cool, have fun.
Carbide, please, rule out Automatic Tool Change. It is not “needed” by your intended audience.
