C3D mods/admins, feel free to delete my inane ramblings if y’all feel it gets away from the subject at-hand.
@nwallace I actually think you and I agree quite a bit. The John Deere debacle is a prime example of what you’re referring to…and it’s doing massive real world harm to some hard working people. But where the difference lies is that you can replace the VFD with any other VFD. For a John Deere tractor, you can’t replace proprietary parts no one else is allowed to make. And I’m glad there are people hacking their combines to get work done.
The salty comment was that many times it gets into criticism that isn’t constructive.
In another call-back to my aftermarket car parts days…we (people in the company smarter than myself in that area) reverse engineered vehicle ECUs and were able to reprogram them. The car manufacturers lock end users out of the ECU for the car, so it was all up to us to get into them. The practice of locking control systems has held up to many, many challenges in court. So the right to repair has limitations once it gets into IP, according to established precedent. It is very analogous here as the settings they use are basically IP.
The “freedom of speech” doesn’t apply here and is a bit of a straw-man fallacy. Freedom of speech refers to our government and it’s relation to the governed, not a private company and it’s product. That’s why social media platforms are able to censor as they desire and it’s a 100% legal and 100% constitutional thing to do. So that example doesn’t apply to this situation.
I think we agree on some things but the parts where we do not are particularly important.
You should not have to replace it. It is not owned by Carbide after they sell it. It is owned by the user. Actively preventing them from doing whatever they want with it is wrong. I don’t think we will agree on this and that is fine.
Laws and court results do not equate to right and wrong. They should, but they don’t. There have been many laws and courts that have been wrong. I also think that using IP as a description of the settings required to make a 3 phase motor spin with a VFD is a stretch. IP as a concept is a pretty murky rabbit hole that has valid arguments on both sides. Unfortunately it is often weaponized in order to prevent end users from doing what companies don’t like.
I was not referring to the bill of rights. The right to speak your mind is not something that can be taken or given by any person or government. It can only be recognized or ignored. When it comes to social media, the user does not own the platforms they are using so the only privileges you have on those things are what those companies give you. That applies here. This is an enormous rabbit hole but I generally agree with your view of the first amendment.
If you’re referring to “right to repair” I stand by my statement. Right to repair specifically means part replacement. I do agree that you’re replacing it based upon a lack of functionality, rather than it being broken. But in the case of a control unit, the programming of that unit is intellectual property here as much as a car manufacturer is using a control unit to properly control a series of explosions inside of an engine. Both examples can be broken down into very simple terms.
I 100% agree with you there. But you’re bringing up laws, so again, the statement stands even if I agree that laws are very often amoral. Again we agree on something.
I am not specifically, only pointing out what I see as right and wrong. The whole right to repair movement is one view of this idea. I don’t think there are any laws that could accomplish the right thing without providing loopholes or overreaching.
It really is unfortunate that laws in general have a hard time guiding the world to right and wrong. Hence the whole letter of the law vs. spirit of the law notion.
I dunno as far as C3D is concerned. I talk to a few people there every so often, but don’t have any insight on that more than you do at the moment. But legal precedent has agreed that programming is IP in the automotive industry. I would imagine that precedent would carry over if it went to court.
I’m not a lawyer in any way shape of form. I make things. But some of those things relate to this situation from what I can tell.
When C3D announced their spindle kit, I was looking forward to purchasing one. When the details finally came out, and it was revealed that it would be locked, I decided that when I buy one, it would be from another vendor. If they don’t want to reveal the password, that’s their choice. Where I spend my money is my choice. I’m not being forced to buy their vfd spindle, and they shouldn’t be forced to supply their password.
That being said, There is enough information on the net, that I don’t see why you couldn’t, with a little persistence and a good bottle of scotch, figure out the password yourself.
I’m rather surprised there isn’t a way to restore factory settings on these. ??
My manual lists all the default settings, so you could go through the parameters pretty quick & jot down the customized values. Then reset it to factory settings. Password is now 0000 & then customize it to your needs.
I’m pretty curious now to see how fast my spindle is actually turning compared to programmed values.
I’ll be honest, up until now I assumed it was right on & haven’t even looked at the VFD other than to reset it after I bury a cutter & it comes to a screeching halt.
I don’t know about your spindle, but when I got mine, I was unsure on the actual RPM’s so I bought a hand held tach to check it. Was pretty close to what was displayed on the VFD, within a few RPM’s.
Is it a 1.5kW spindle? Writing down the parameters would be great. Then if there is a way to wipe the unit (don’t think there is) it could be reprogrammed.
I, and likely many others would greatly appreciate getting a list of those parameters - for either spindle version! You shouldn’t need (and probably don’t want to) totally “wipe the unit” to make it more useful (I.E. display RPM, spindle torque/ power, run times, etc. The manual suggests that P5.0.19 = 030 should backup the current user parameters and P5.0.19 = 060 should restore them. (I wouldn’t count on that though!)
Can I at least get the VFD settings? Mine stopped working, apparently you don’t haven any in stock. I got my hands on a new one, just need the programming information. I have asked via email and have called numerous times. no responses.
Not the same C3D support as it was when i bought my S03 6 or 7 years ago.
