Hi,
I don’t think I am ready for a spindle yet but I actually don’t think my Makita is cutting the mustard. I am not sure it is running straight and true.
I was thinking about buying the er11 router. I realize it has bushings but supposedly it has better bearings. While I think the Makita it 1 1/4 horsepower the Carbide ER-11 Compact Router might only be 1 horsepower.
Does anyone have any experience with it and is the 1/4 horsepower less make any difference?
Anything you can tell me about it would be great. I’m not ready to buy the air spindle yet but I will if the Carbide ER-11 Compact Router is not any better than the Makita. In other words, I’m fine with the Makita but I just think it has run out and was hoping the er 11 router would be a better choice.
Any help would be great. Thank you.
The Makita HP rating is over-stated, by using the peak draw of the motor.
The Standard and ER-11 Carbide Compact Router use motors with the same ratings as the Makita RT0701/0700 and similar electronics (with electronic speed control), so there isn’t a hardware-based reason to prefer one over the other, aside from the ER-11 collet system on the latter.
- get a Makita if you have a local Makita dealer with whom you have a good relationship and are willing to run the cord up to the ceiling to plug it in there and the possibility of the dial lacking detents and vibrating off a given speed setting is something one can work with
- get a Standard Carbide Compact Router if working with Carbide 3D and waiting for shipping will work for you
- get an ER-11 Carbide Compact Router if you need a variety of collet sizes and want a collet system which will pull the collet out when the nut is unscrewed and/or want compatibility w/ another spindle w/ ER-11 collets (one has a Nomad, or is considering getting a VFD spindle kit)
What about the bearings? The Carbide ER-11 Compact Router looks the same as the openbuilds er-11 router so I am assuming it is by the same company. If that is the case then the bearings are supposed to be better with a lot less runout.
Have you used this er-11 router before?
My Makita is trammed. However, when I rotate it other than 0 and 90 degrees all of a sudden it is not equal. That tells me the bit does not run straight and true when it is rotating because of the lesser quality bearings and races. Thats why I am looking at something similar but is built for cnc machines.
I’ve been using the ER-11 Carbide Compact Router since before it was released — it works well, and maybe the bearings are better than the Makita, but the shop listing for it says:
There’s only one reason to buy this router over the less expensive Carbide Compact Router: you need to use cutters or drills with a shank diameter other than 1/8" and 1/4". Other than the collets, there is no difference.
and the word bearing doesn’t show up on the Carbide Compact Router shop listing.
I am sure the Carbide er router is just a rebranded standard router. Stick with a standard router and use good adapter bushings.When it craps out just get another. The vfd setup is worth every penny.
It does on the openbuilds er-11 website and the MakerMade er-11 website. They all use the same castings, which includes the Carbide ER-11 Compact Router which tells me they are made by the same company.
They all say “NSK bearings” and is more suitable for cnc work. Palm routers suffer from less expensive bearings and races and were not meant for a cnc as mentioned by router makers.
However, these routers are supposedly better with less runout. There is even a short video demonstrating this.
The only website that doesn’t mention this info is the Carbide ER-11 Compact Router but if the better bearings are true mentioned by the other websites than I would imagine it is true for the carbide er-11 router as well. I just don’t have any experiance with it and was looking for someone that does.
All this time I thought they were the same(palm router like Makita vs. er-11 router) but even in the price, $80 vs. er-11 $150 (carbide 3d website) there is a difference. Surely it can’t be just the collet system is different. The Er-11 is almost twice as much. There has to be a more of a difference in how they are made.
You can try the Makita rebuild kit for $45 from eReplacementParts. I did that and I bought a new C3D router. Te replacement kit was easy and now I have a spare.
My bearings were worse than I thought. The new router made a significant improvement.
It’s not necessary to use bushings — we stock precision collets for the Standard Carbide Compact Router (which will also fit the Makita RT0701) at:
and pretty much any size one might want is available from a 3rd party, Elaire Corp.
C3D has someone make their router. I remember talk on the forum was that C3D was working with the manufacturer about making the er11 collet version. Then the er11 started being offered by other people and C3D still did not have the er11 version. So sounds like the company stole the design and started selling it to others even before C3D got their version. The C3D is a clone of the Makita. The same bearings and parts are used on the Makita as well as the other clones. I think the Rocky is also the same clone.
So there does not seem to be a substantial difference between the Makita and C3D routers. The main difference is the C3D one does not come with a base like the Makita when you buy it from a retailer.
The Makita/C3D seems to have a lot of bearing failures. The original router sold by C3D was the Dewalt but they have not sold that for some time. So buy the cheapest one you can get because they are all the same. The C3D router does have a longer cord than the Makita so you can run it outside the drag chain on the Shapeoko machines. The Makita/C3D routers are 66MM diameter and the Dewalt is 69MM so they re not interchangeable without buying a new router mount. The Makita/C3D router has a lower RPM setting over the Dewalt but most people dont need the lower RPM unless you are doing something special.
So buy yourself a 120v 66MM Spindle that is air cooled and get the agony over with. The cost of a Makita/C3D router is basically a throw away at its end of life. The rebuilt kits are less than a new router but not much.
The only advantage of the er11 collet is it can have more collets that accomodate more sizes of router bit shanks. However from elairecorp.com you can buy metric collets for the Makita/C3D routers. If you are going to drill odd size holes then the er11 can be beneficial but most people do not do that.
When you refer to the c3d router; which did you buy?
This Carbide Compact Router - Carbide 3D
Or Carbide ER-11 Compact Router - Carbide 3D
Which I assume is the same as Router11 CNC Kit
Which the video says it is a cross between a spindle and a router. Note the huge price difference even for carbide 3d even. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGJ6lOp4T0Y
I got the standard C3D router which is a direct replacement for the one I had. Then repaired the old one.
I didn’t think the ER11 collets was worth the upcharge but maybe there is some other difference in the routers.
The basic model plus replacement parts was less than the ER11 model. When I wear both of these out maybe I will graduate to the VFD.
Since it was released? How long have you been using it? That would tell me smelting about longevity.
I am noticing certain things with my Makita. Tramming for one difference. I can tell its not the same all the way around. I’ll just say I have two of them. It seems one is better than the other one that I’m wanting to replace. Does your get hot inside of a minute without cutting?
I was wondering if there was some other difference too for the big jump in price.
I’m just not ready to warrant an $850 spindle.
Yep. That was my dilemma as well. I could feel wiggle at the collet in my router and when I replaced it that was gone and I have been super happy with the performance since.
The new C3D router comes with the collet nut and I think it came with collets as well but maybe I purchased those separately, can’t remember. It also comes with some spare brushes which I used when putting in the new armature and bearings in the old router.
With your bearings being worse than you though thats what I’m afraid of and I haven’t used it that much. There is a huge price difference between their standard router and the er11 router. Having a different kind of collet couldn’t be the cause of such a drastic price jump unless there is something else. The other companies that sell these do say the bearings are better and I am thinking that carbide 3d is selling the exact thing just they choose not to advertise the other differences.
I don’t think you can draw conclusions from so few examples.
I will note that both of the ER-11 routers I’ve had when first used would heat up, but after a couple of hours of use that stopped happening.
Thats not the case at all with my Makita. It heats up scalding hot in seconds ( never cooling off) without cutting anything. It has been doing that since brand new.
What examples are you talking about?
I have a total of 4 datapoints:
- Makita RT0701 — this worked fine out the gate, always running cool and quite and cut well — this one was far enough back that I think it pre-dated manufacturing in China
- Standard Carbide Compact Router — this was hot at the collet at first, but after a while seemed to run-in and stopped doing that
- 2 x ER-11 Carbide Compact Routers — both of these also had the heating up at first — one was heating up for several usages, the other only one or two
My Makita does not also seem to be running true. Putting tram gauges on it at 0 degrees and 90 degrees It stays flat with the table. However, between those degrees it reads differently which tells me there is a wobble. Very slight but a wobble which reflects in some types of cuts like flattening.
How does you er11 router compare to your Makita other than heating up?
My Makita ran fine and seemed to spin true, even when I was really tempting fate by making cuts w/ a 3" long 1/8" endmill in tough materials such as ipê.
The ER-11 routers only heated up for the first couple/few usages — they now run just as cool as the Makita did (it’s currently in a box in my basement as a spare) — more importantly, they were both able to make use of the same long tool for cutting (though not in such tough materials).
But these are just a few units — and while Carbide 3D has sold many more — that’s a drop in the bucket compared to total sales of these tools at Home Depot, Lowe’s, Ace, True Value, Woodcraft, &c.
I suspect if you just take your Makita to your local Makita dealer they’ll tell you that the bearings are bad and will change them out for some which will work much better. Some folks change them w/o resorting to a shop (but we don’t consider the bearings a user-replaceable part).