2.2kw G-Penny kit

Hello! :slightly_smiling_face:

Am in the process of getting a 2.2kw 220v spindle, but must admit I’m slightly confused regarding which kit to select. Have been looking at the different ones at https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/2-2kw-Spindle-Kits/342739_509573279.html (assuming this is the store on Aliexpress people buy from. At least thats the ones that came out on top when just looking at the number of orders. Have no problem ordering from another store on the site, but wanted to grab as much as possible from the same store since import taxes makes it better to do one large order rather than several small ones).

  • One of the white ones is listed as a “Vector inverter” and the other says VFD, so not sure what that even means as far as compatibility and performance goes (Vector vs VFD)
  • One’s listed as a “New arrival” and seems to be a newer VFD, but got a bit skeptical after seeing some of the comments
  • The three other black ones seems to be the one talked most about when doing some research. I was just hoping one of the above ones would be an improvement as I’ve seen some noise complaints regarding this one. Obviously if this is the best one I’ll get it and play it by ear (no pun intended :stuck_out_tongue:) and figure out what to do regarding the noise.

As an aside:
Thinking of running the water cooling tubes through the drag chain. Good/bad idea? If good, should I pick up a couple any of the drag chains found here (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/Drag-Chain/342739_512319214.html)?

Any other things the store sells that’s generally recommended to get? Planning on fetching a couple of collet sets and also some packs of collet nuts.

In advance, thanks! :grin:

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Some of us have the “black” VFD (Huanyang):


which fan is noisy indeed (but not unbearable, and it can be changed). I have no idea what the “Vector inverter” models are worth, but I know that if you were to go for the Huanyang black VFD, you could be interested in this thread about setting parameters. Join the gang, it will be easier to support you in case there is any bump on the road :slight_smile:

I don’t think you can really go wrong, the blue G-penny is a great spindle, it’s already grounded, and it has worked great for several people here (you must have seen the threads)

I don’t have drag chains (SO3…) but I think many people (@Griff?) do run their cooling tubes in them.

EDIT: @wb9tpg has a great thread on his spindle install, and he does run the cooling tubes through the drag chains

Do grab several ER collet sets, you never know when you’ll damage one and be stuck, better have a spare one or two.
Collet nuts: the one that comes with the spindle has been balanced (tiny holes bored in it) at the factory, if you buy extra collet nuts, I think you should be careful whether they are balanced or not (the balanced ones I found were very pricy)

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Vector most likely refers to the control mode. Which seems to be the case from the page quoted as:

Control Method: V/F control; Open-loop flux vector control

V/F is the normal, typical control mode you will see on these import low-end VFDs. Stands for Voltage/Frequency (aka V/Hz), this means as the hertz (RPM) increase so does the voltage, there is no feedback loop. As more load is applied to the spindle (cutting) the VFD does not compensate, so the RPM will decrease on higher cuts (causing increasing chip load) - I have a feeling most everyone here with an import bundled spindle+VFD is running in this control mode.
There is two types of vector control mode, closed loop (sensor/encoder to detect spindle RPMs) and open loop. Closed loop vector control mode is less common, at least you won’t see it in these price ranges, also requires a spindle with said sensor/encoder. Open loop Vector, also known as Sensorless vector control has the VFD monitor the characteristics and current on the spindle after an [auto]tune. It dynamically changes the volts (and frequency) to the spindle when loads are introduced, typically in the lower RPM range.


https://support.automationdirect.com/faq/showfaq.php?id=271

I actually opt’d for a name brand VFD with sensorless vector control mode. They really aren’t much more than the imports ($150-250) in my opinion, especially with additional features baked in (EMC filter) and has a manual and diagrams I can read :slight_smile:
I bought a used Invertek ODE-3-220105-1F42 for $160

I can’t give much any feedback yet, as my spindle upgrade has really just started. As in I just did a test of the VFD and spindle on my bench minutes ago :laughing:

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Thank you for the replies! :slightly_smiling_face:

@Julien

You make a fair point regarding having something other people have been using both in case any help is needed and the fact that it’s confirmed working.

Have skimmed through the VFD param thread before but great call on the thread from wb9tpg

Hmm, regarding the collet nut, this store had a 5 pack for $8.45, so would assume these are perhaps a bad choice to get. Relatively new with this so haven’t really read anything regarding the lifespan of a collet nut with “normal” use. It was more for gathering as much as possible from the same store in the same order.

Potential silly question … Since ER is a standard, would any balanced work, or does the balancing entail taking the spindles weight or something other that is unique to that spindle into consideration?

@DanStory

Cheers for the info! Electrical schematics isn’t really my forte, but I got the gist of what you’re saying :slightly_smiling_face:

The VFD aftermarket over here is non-existant. The only thing available in stores was a Omron VZA22P2BAA, but it seems to cost around £450, so more than the whole kit.

Nice! Exciting times! I’m sure you’ll get it up and running in no time :crossed_fingers: :smiley:

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Also, it could be said that more than 1.5Kw isn’t much benefit on the SO3 without additional upgrades in ridigity and power transmission (belts).
I almost went with a WEG VFD, but found that used Invertek instead.

https://inverterdrive.com/group/AC-Inverter-Drives-230V/?filter=Control|Sensorless+Vector&filter=Power|2.2kW

Gotcha! To be honest, the main reason was to get ER20 (to being able to use 1/2"). Originally looked at 1.5kw but could only find them in ER16

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Yeah, I do forget about that, the ER size. I don’t have endmills that large, but will have to experiment with them, if anything for facing ops.

I did get a 2.2Kw, but that was mostly due to other things I didn’t want to give up (30K RPM) otherwise would have went 1.5Kw. As getting access to 240V in a residential USA home is harder, especially as my electrical panel is full.

Almost debated underrating the spindle (limiting amps on the VFD params) so I could just step-up the 110V on a 20 amp circuit. I have since pigtailed off the dryer that is near my garage instead.

So you know, you will need to upgrade to a larger drag chain to accommodate the cooling lines. Uxel I think makes some cheap ones, that are OK, if you want the Cadalack of drag chains though you’ll want Igus, but prepare for sticker shock. I’ll post the PN’s I used for my XL in the morning. If that helps. If you get a lead on anything that can hold a 1/2” shank let me know, I’m on an ER11, so I can only go to .25” .
One thing I would add is that you’ll want to look into an HDZ. I had to build a mount for my spindle, and redo the springs to support the weight/increase stiffness, and traming (pre HDZ days). I can say for sure NOT as fun as it sounds.

Make sure your drag chain:

  1. Opens; some of them don’t.
  2. Is big enough: I used 15x40 and wish I’d went a little bigger
  3. Watch the “MBR” minimum bend radius of your cables and fabricate new supports for the chain to accommodate that.
  4. You stepper cables may not be long enough given the MBR so you may need to extend them or replace them.
  5. Do you know how to solder and feel comfortable doing it
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@TheSilentEngineer

Thank you for the info! I do have a HDZ installed and also a new mount for the spindle, so should be good there. I’ll have a browse around when you get the part #, cheers!

Unless I misunderstood what you meant, ER20 supports 1/2". Not sure if anyone has a more “official” chart/table, but as far as I can tell this seems to be pretty accurate explaining the ER sizings (https://littlemachineshop.com/info/er_collet_sizes.php).

@wb9tpg

Fantastic! I’ll take it into consideration. Especially regarding #2. Super valuable info as I was looking around that range. Will look at larger ones.

Have no issues soldering, but not too educated when it comes to circuits and things like that, so a lot of things just takes longer to investigate. I.e, if I need to extend them do I have to recalibrate anything (just thinking if the voltage drops or something since the wires will be longer) or will longer cables (within reason) not have any effect? Have been wanting to move the controller outside the enclosure so it would be a perfect time to do things like that in the same operation.

@NielsBP
I have ER-11 on the 2.2Kw spindle I purchased mostly because it had a 120V option and water cooling. I wish I had known about the G-penny kit at that time. It is a little restrictive with ER-11 max shank is 5/56"(7.9mm), where an ER-16 tops out around 13/32" (~10.3mm). ER-20 will get you well above your 1/2" mark ~9/16. Maritool has a good selection to browse if your ever looking https://www.maritool.com/ER-Collets.

This is a screenshot of the drag chain I ordered from Igus. If you do this be prepared that you might need to make a mounting bracket to hold the drag chain. Neither the Igus or Uxcell drag chains were a good fit with stock brackets. @wb9tpg has a list of good points to think about especially MBR and size. I’m nearly at max capacity for my drag chain, but i did add a lot of additional wires so that’s my fault. IMHO worth the investment.

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