5x7 in. Aluminum Plate 100 Characters 4mm text Height about how long with this take with Shapoko 4

1

I have never operated an engraver or CNC machine before but have been researching for the last 2.5 months. I have downloaded a few CAM CAD softwares and simulations.

I am trying to decide what type of engraver to buy. I have a very specific case used for the machine. I am putting text on iodized aluminum plates that are coated/painted with enamel. It’s about 100 text characters appx. 4mm text height. I would like to know if Shapeoko 4 Standard size will be able to crank out 1 in about 5 min or less. the Plate is about 5x7 in or 127x177 mm. and the text will be probably no more than .1mm or .2mm deep if that. The plate itself is probably 1.5mm deep if I had to guess.

I’m thinking of using a 30-degree v bit or something like that. I put the simulation in Easel and I had it come out to 6 minutes but I jumped all my setting up to superfast. I guess what I’m trying to ask is this is a realistic option with this machine. I heard the rack and pinion systems are faster. I have no idea the limitations of this machine or the stepping motors’ speeds or anything.

I want a CNC so I can stop using a hand engraving tool because it vibrates my hand pretty bad after just writing one placard. THis is one small aspect of the job that I do so it would only be used for this purpose and maybe only used three to four times a week for one placard each time. Also, I want a professional look and not sloppy shaky handwriting from a hand tool.

I would like to use this at my place of work and have other people be able to use it as well for engraving the same item. I’ve looked at good quality Dot Peen Marking Machines but they are about 3 times the price and kind of not as good software options plus small work area.

As it sits people can usually handwrite these placards in about 5 minutes so I want to make sure this doesn’t take much longer than that as a selling point to management to get this machine. Unless someone knows a machine that would better suit my needs for about 1500 to 2500 USD. The Dot Peen is extremely fast about 20 characters per second, but like I said it’s about 8000 for the full package. & pretty sure the manager is going to dish out that much.

From the video’s I’ve seen the xyz axis seem a bit slow but I’m not sure if that’s just because people are milling larger items and want the quality for how much material they are removing or if the machine just can’t go that fast due to physical limitations of the stepper motors and other parts etc., I’ve seen some Mill Right videos where it looks like the xy is a bit faster. However, I have also heard that Mill Rights customer service is less desirable than what I’ve read about Carbide 3D’s customer service. I have also heard that some of the Mill Right products are not square and that scares me as far as having to deal with the router connected to the carriage and all.

Also, I don’t know much about IPM but I’m not sure that is the best unit when talking about the very small text because there isn’t much material to be extruded anyways. I’m thinking the speed comparison between different machines with this type of engraving would have more to do with the stepper motors, type of xy axis built, etc… Or could I just use a direct IPM comparison between products for this type of engraving to determine which is faster?

Any thoughts would be great,
Thanks,

2

You should be able to do this w/ a diamond drag-engrave such as our MC Etcher:

It has a feed rate of 60 in./min. (or 1,524mm/min.):

image
image1836×1302 83.1 KB

100 text characters at 4mm of text height ought to equal something like

4 * 4 * 100 == 1,600 mm

so that ought to be a minute or two of machine time (since this will be done in a single pass since 0.015" == 0.381mm) — if you don’t use a single line font, the machine time would double again, so two–four minutes as a worst-case scenario.

3

This sounds like a better job for a Nomad. Someone with one of those machines will have to talk about the speed of that machine but it sounds like a pretty good fit. Less moving mass is better if you are trying for high speeds with high accuracy. The larger frame and belts will put the Shapeoko 4 at a pretty big disadvantage when compared to a Nomad.

The diamond drag engraver @WillAdams mentions will work well in either machine but you will be able to go faster more accurately in the Nomad.

4

Both pieces of information are good to know.

Do you think the dragging etching will be ok with the enamel? I’m not sure if it will make a mess with the paint not coming off in a straight line or dragging other paint with it?

If I find a kink using the dragging method and end up using a v carve type bit (with rotation on) do you think mm per minute would still remain the same? or still, meet under 5 min?

Also Is the Nomad 3 the only one capable of meeting the less than 5 min or can they both meet that time frame but the nomad would just be better as far as rigidity and specific case use for this product? I’m asking because of the price.

Thanks,

5

I thought they were anodized?

Diamond drag engraving works well for anodization — for enamel I’d worry about chipping.

Both machines should be able to do this well, but as @nwallace notes, the more rigid Nomad should yield a nicer result — write in to sales@carbide3d.com for more on that.

6

Perhaps before pulling the trigger on a machine you should try to find someone with each machine and pay them to run a few samples and see what one fits your needs better.

Also keep in mind you can fit multiple plates on the shapeoko.

1 Like
7

Please note that while expansion packs were offered for the Shapeoko 3, they are no longer an option for the Shapeoko 4 and Pro (and thus far there is only one size of HDM).

8

Yes, the manufacturer said they were anodized aluminum with an enamel paint final coat. I will attach an image. I was told at a quick glance by a local engraver that it was not anodized. However, that is what the manufacturer said. Also, you can’t see the aluminum finish because both sides are coated with enamel.

I will email sales to find out more about the length of time to engrave. Do you feel that the length that you gave me of about 1 to 2 minutes would ring true for a regular v bit that was to engrave rather than etch? Or is the etcher much faster because it’s just one line rather than trenching out more metal? Also is there a bit that can make a single pass and have the text look pretty thick as seen in the attachment. Maybe like a 30-degree v bit or something? Or does it have to carve multiple times through each character to get the font filled out? I’m assuming this would take longer than 2 minutes.

Big Thanks,
to everyone’s support!

Placard For Ref Only.PNG
Placard For Ref Only.PNG461×645 102 KB

Data Placard.PNG
Data Placard.PNG617×881 67.4 KB

9

Just the outline should come pretty close to filing things in at that size — hopefully sales/support will be able to walk you through this.

10

Your budget is tight, but if I had such an enterprise use, I’d be looking at a laser. Second option would be a used engraving machine. The spring loaded floating tool will make setup and consistent results significantly easier to obtain.

An intermediate option would be something like the Shapeoko fitted with a euro style portal motor. Will has one of these mounted on his machine. There are some floating engraving head retrofit options for these out there.

1 Like
11

Is the euro-style portal motor like a stepper motor or part of the router?
Thanks for your input about lasers. See below.

Before you read some of my reasons for not choosing a laser at this point keep this in mind. I am working with an IT team that would need to vet any of the various software required before downloading. For this reason, I need to have a product that if there is an issue we can call tech support of the said product company and or email them to get support for the product or software if any issues arise.
Part of that means I can’t just get any machine off Aliexpress website if they don’t have good customer support (not they don’t have good customer support with their products but I’m just giving an example of the cheaper options). One of the main reasons I have chosen Carbide3D as 2 of my three options is due to the online community and customer support. and Some if not most of the production stateside. You guys have been a great help. I prob wouldn’t have the same support through some lesser brands out there.

Lasers

  • Fiber lasers machines are super-fast and very quiet as well as great-looking engraving. They would be great for engraving on our data placards. However, they have a few major drawbacks. The machine’s quality control in the USA started in the $10,000 range which is a super high price for what we are doing.
  • There are $3000 and up Fiber lasers that are questionable in terms of quality, due to not having sufficient US QC.
  • There are $500 range laser machines but these use a diode laser (5 – 10 watt) and would take far too long (40 minutes - 1 hour to engrave our text). They usually require someone present because of a potential fire hazard if the machine is left working by itself.
  • Another reason I’m not choosing the laser engravers is not a show stopper, but the enamel burn-off would create fumes that we would need to vent out of the building to the exterior. I’m not saying we couldn’t do that, but it is an extra drawback for all of the laser machines.
  • Also, there are not many local places that can replace parts for lasers as much as CNC router machines. In contrast, you can get several brands of a 65mm CNC router at Home depot if you need one.

If you think there is a laser out there or a cheap router with longevity and good customer support that is fast (5 min) or slow but does not require someone standing beside it. Let me know your thoughts. I just hear that the diode laser machines could be fire hazards if left unattended so the diodes are kind of super slow even with just some text.

Thanks,

12

I believe the motor comment is in reference to:

I bought a Mafell FM 1000 WS, mostly as an indulgence (I’d been doing a lot of test cuts, and some days it felt as if I were spending more time wrenching than the machine was cutting).

@Lowbrowroyalty I’d be curious for a link to the spring-loaded engraving setup.

13

A milling motor with a 43mm clamping neck. A variety of manufactures have some form of distributor in the USA. AMB/Kress, Suhner, Mafell ect. Sometimes referred to as a portal or euro neck. For the explicit purpose of engraving, you can get something smaller and even more suitable, however the Shapeoko probably can’t take advantage of their lighter weight and potentially much higher RPM while doing this kind of tight work. A small motor, like the smallest from those listed above would at least give you some additional versatility.

I completely understand, an enterprise grade laser will generally not be cheap, $10k+ for a new small format deal. Trotec, Epilog ect. You are paying for service/support, reliability, ease of use, AND production capability. As far as laser service, I’d think there are plenty of technicians around to service them. It might not fit your budget, but it’s probably the optimal tool for the task. For marking, metal to be sure, a fiber laser would be optimal. Marking a painted surface, a CO2 would potentially suffice. I don’t know much of anything about Diode, and I’ve never seen one used in a commercial manufacturing environment. You can surely buy a Chinese manufactured Co2 laser that would handle this task for far less than $1000. But you already have noted the problems with this. That said, they are very simple machines, not all that different from one of these little CNC routers.

Anyway, engraving things with a standard CNC router can be troublesome. I mark composites, metals, and plastics on about a daily basis. Depending on expectations, material, process ect, it can be a frustrating operation. I scrap more material from bad marking than any other process, to include design and post machine work. This is primarily speaking to stock that cannot be faced.

1 Like
14

Here are a couple versions off the top of my head.

Sorotec Online-Shop - Engraving stop / depth regulator FES43

Depth controller | engraving stopper by CNC-STEP

15

Ah, interesting, wouldn’t work w/ the quick change versions and their square mount.

16

Agreed, you’d definitely need one of the euro neck versions as mentioned. But it’s worth sharing, it’s a plausible means of bootstrapping a repeatable rotary engraving setup. Especially if you require a large format.

1 Like
17

This topic was automatically closed after 30 days. New replies are no longer allowed.