Hey guys. I’m having an issue where the bit starts to work its way out of the collet eventually going so deep it bogs the machine down. I’m using the Carbide 3D router and the precision collets. It seems to me like there might be some deflection happening in the collet of the router allowing it to work itself out. It doesn’t matter how tight I tighten it, or how deep I set the bit. I’ve taken the collet apart and cleaned it good. I am cutting hard white maple (this wood is REALLY hard) with a 1/4" 3 flute bit (#201). I’m running it at 70 IPM, 18,000 RPM, and 1/8 DOC. From what I’ve seen, this should be within the capabilities of the bit. It when it bogged the router down, it seemed to eat up the brushes that were in it and wouldn’t start again until I replaced them. Have any of you guys had any experience like this? Am I using the wrong feeds and speeds? Is the router messed up? Any other ideas? Oh, and I’ve measured the collet and bit and they are precisely .25".
Are you using a pair of wrenches to install the endmills and tighten things?
I find a nice low profile 13mm wrench and a good quality stubby 22mm wrench allow me to squeeze firmly (monkey tight, not gorilla tight) and get the endmill adequately tight.
I’ve tried both ways. I’ve used two wrenches and just the pin. I’ve tried monkey and gorilla tight.
If you cannot get your collet to tighten then get rid of it. If it is from Carbide3d they may warranty it but weather you get a free one or have to buy another one get it off your router and quit running until you get another collet and fix the problem. It is that simple. You are putting yourself in danger running with a known problem.
You didn’t say whether you tried “lower” feeds and speeds to see if that changes anything. Perhaps you are running it too hard?
Please send photos of the collets and the router body and the inside of the router shaft to us at firstname.lastname@example.org and we will work this out with you.
I have the Carbide router and precision collets. I have cut hard maple as well and have had no issues. . I tend to lean toward gorilla tight when mounting bits because I have had this problem with other routers in the past. You could play with your feeds and speeds. Have you inspected the router chuck?
I went with the Makita brand router… 4 1/2 years and I’m still on the OEM brushes…and never had a tool slip…except for a dovetail cutter that I forgot to tighten (Operator (me) error).
First replace the collet…if that doesn’t eliminate the problem, replace the router…
Are you using a pre-filter (sock) on the router?) That’s my secret.
EDIT: (ADD) I also use Carbide3D’s collets, but make sure that the inside of the router (taper) is clean. I actually blow it clean between EVERY tool change. Also make sure that collet OD is clean from any nicks, and lastly make sure everything is oil free.
What is your stepover?
Believe me. The collet is tight. I can’t budge the bit even after the cut goes haywire. But I can clearly tell that the bit is not as deep in the collet as it was when it started.
Stepover is 0.125". The collet is in great shape and I haven’t had any other problems. When cutting it feels like it’s putting a lot of stress on the bit and router. However when I calculate speeds and feeds, I’m well within the range of what should work. Looking at the speeds and feeds for similar Amana bits, I’m possibly running way too slow. They are suggesting I could easily go over 100 IPM at 18,000 RPM at .25 DOC. I wonder if the bit is just dull. It doesn’t feel dull to the touch, but I’m no expert either. I just picked up a new bit. I’ll try it with that and see how it goes. By the way, I went and bought a DeWalt router last night and tried it. It finished the cut alright but I still feel like the cut was quite stressed. I then realized my Sweepy dust boot will not work with the DeWalt. I’ll probably just return it and see what else I can do. If I can’t get anything else to work, I’ll reach out to Carbide 3D and see what they can do. @WillAdams. I don’t believe that pictures of any of that will help troubleshoot. The collet appears to be in great shape. The router doesn’t show any signs (at least on the outside) of having issues. I’ve cleaned out the inside of the router shaft as well. I can still do that if you’d think it would be helpful.
If you’re able to tighten the DeWalt unit so that it doesn’t slip, then if you can’t tighten the Carbide Compact Router so that it doesn’t slip, it would seem to me that the CCR is at fault — we’ll do our best to work through this with you to resolve this — start by sending in the photos as asked — it might be that someone else on the support queue will have a better suggestion.
Update. I bought a new 1/4 upcut bit from Amana and ran it through maple using the CC router. It worked flawlessly. I double checked the diameter of the old bit (a Nomad #201) and it seemed right on. Maybe .0005 smaller than .25. I never felt like that bit wasn’t “tight” in the collet. My interpretation of what is happening is that the old bit got dull enough that as it was trying to slice through this hard maple, it was causing more deflection in the bit than usual. The design of this router / collet doesn’t seem to handle that well and let’s the bit “roll” out of the collet a tiny bit at a time until it’s out enough and deflecting enough that it basically just starts to come out quite quickly. With the new bit, I’m actually running even more aggressive than I was before and it seemed fine the whole cut.
Lesson: Even if your bit “seems” sharp, it might not be. I did notice that I was starting to get a lot more fuzzies and things with the old bit.
Do you guys still think the router or collet might be an issue? I wouldn’t expect that a bit could “walk” or “roll” itself out like that.
Let us know about this at email@example.com and we’ll do our best to work through this with you.
Thanks Will. I’ll do that.
Dull bits require more power when cutting. At the same cutting speed (SFM or RPM and bit size), that causes an increase in bit torque. It’s likely that torque increase that was causing your problems. You can monitor cutting power increases (hence bit performance) by monitoring spindle power increase - which is easy to do,
I also ruined a precision collet because I let sawdust build up to a point that it didn’t tighten properly. It is a good habit to clean the collet often.
I once had a bit that was too small and went back to Amazon and saw others had the same problem.