I have been mulling over what spindle to outfit my new Shapeoko 3XL/HDZ with. I originally bought the Carbide3D Makita clone, but I’m not feeling the 3/8" max tool size - and that’s with a hard-to-find split ring “collet” (airquotes are mine) that nobody seems to have in stock.
I like what I see when I look at the Bosch 1617EVS, but I don’t find any posts where anyone describes working with it. It’s so rare that I can’t even find a definite measurement of the OD. I assume it’s larger than the 80mm Shapeoko spindle clamp I just bought for a future 3-phase spindle, which is unfortunate.
Does anyone have experience with this router? Horror stories?
It’s exactly this kind of specification that I look at with suspicion. This is a German tool company, probably manufacturing for Worldwide distribution in Asia, and therefore it is very unlikely that it has an imperial diameter.
I am willing to accept that it has an 89mm diameter, but again - I’m looking for an actual number.
I had a Shark Pro HD and I had a Bosch 1617EVS and it is a 3.5 inch router body measurement. The Bosch is a 2.5 HP router which might be a little much for a Shapeoko. You could make a custom router base but you have got a much bigger diameter router and the leverage on even an HDZ might be in question. The weight would not be too much but the 1/2 inch collet and larger router bits combined with the leverage of the router might be an issue.
If you need increased horsepower you might be better off getting a spindle in the 80MM size and forgo the custom router base for a larger router.
The Bosch 1617EVS is a good router but an 80MM spindle is 3 5/32 inches so the Bosch is not much bigger but would not fit in an 80MM router mount.
I believe that your assumption that the body of this trim router is in metric is incorrect.
The router is the oldest electric hand power tool, and as a venerable example, was inaugurated in various U.S. brands using Imperial measure and these dimensions have carried forward for compatibility with fixture and accessories.
@gdon_2003 's measure of 3.5 inches should be accurate, but using the nearest metric measure of 89mm (rather than the 88.9 of a direct conversion) should be perfectly workable.
Thank you for the history lesson. Your assessment of it as likely being organically imperial is a good reason to avoid it. In 2021, I have given up arguing for the meter (it doesn’t need my help!), so I’ll spare you the fighting words. I will say though, that as soon as the inch is brought up, I lose interest in the conversation altogether.
My reason for looking elsewhere than the Carbide Compact Router is mainly because I want to use a Haimer probe in the spindle to find the center of work, as I am accustomed to as a machinist. My Haimer has an integrated 12mm shank and I would like to find a router that can accommodate it. I understand that is probably not a tool most woodworkers would be familiar with.
Are you familiar with a router that will fit within the 65mm or 80mm envelope of the clamp made for the HDZ, that will accommodate at least a 12mm tool?
Since you already have the 80mm spindle clamp, and bought it for a future 3-phase spindle, why not make the move now and buy a spindle ? You would then be able to use ER20 collets, and therefore fit a 12mm tool
Of course you can deny history because you don’t like it, but it seems sophomoric. Sure, you can avoid it because you find it distasteful, but 300mm, 600mm, 900mm sizes for drawers and cabinets and desk heights, 25mm boards, 100mm anything… all still here in the metric world. Still the same size, all harking back to history. All organically imperial. Now with precision and better maths! It’s great and doesn’t need to be “cancelled”.
Given that the inch was redefined in metric terms you should just accept the win — or do you not use 6.35mm hex bits in your tools? And will you not be using any 1/4″ or 1/8″ tooling?
For routers, there aren’t many which don’t match the de facto standard of 3.5″ (or as noted, one can use 89mm) — and I’m not aware of any smaller units which will accept a 12mm shank — even the Bosch Colt which was the darling of the CNC world for a while wouldn’t, and even the custom milling motors such as the Mafell FM 1000 WS I just bought top out at 8mm (5/16″)
My understanding is if you don’t get a larger router of a diameter as noted above (the Metabo HPT formerly known as the Hitachi M12VC is popular) you’d need a spindle, either 65mm or 80mm diameter which has an ER-20 collet.
Note that you’ll probably also need to get a custom collet if the unit doesn’t come with a 12mm collet, so check the usual suspects, Elaire Corp. and the Precise Bits folks.
I’m learning something here, so thanks for that. I hope my attitude didn’t come across as too awful.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but it looks like there is a standard for router bodies to fit into router bases and tables, and that standard is 3-1/2". I didn’t expect that, especially considering compact routers are metric.
I am not a woodworker, so I have very little frame of reference when it comes to woodworking tools. I bought the Shapeoko because I have a product idea I want to explore, and I would prefer to avoid getting too obsessed with outfitting the machine itself. All I know is I want to attach a spindle that can accommodate at least a 12mm tool, and I would prefer it if it fit the mount I already have. This is partly due to the fact that I don’t have a means to make my own (I’m trying to wrap my head around putting a boring head in an 8000RPM spindle with a tiny shank).
Regarding the 3-phase spindle, I have thought about this a lot. My workspace has 110v service only and the circuit is shared with a bunch of other stuff, so I just don’t think it can accommodate the 2.2kw spindles that I would have to get to have an ER20 collet. If I could find an air-cooled 1.5kw spindle with an ER20 nose, and a matching VFD that accepted 110v input, I wouldn’t be having this conversation!
Yes, it’s unfortunate that such a thing doesn’t seem to exist — I resisted getting an ER-16 collet extender/adapter for my Mafell because it didn’t seem a suitable value proposition (had a hard enough time justifying the unit itself), but an ER-20 probably would have been something worth picking up because of the added flexibility for metrology.
If I could find this 1/2"-ER20 with a 3/8" shank, I think I would just use the Carbide Compact Router. If anybody has World-class googling skills, or already knows where to find such a thing, I’d be grateful if you could link to it.
@WillAdams I am not an electrical engineer, nor do I know much about power, however several years ago I rewired a 3HP horizontal mill with a KBAC-29 (1P) VFD that I bought specifically for the single phase service I had in that shop at that time. Knowing what I know now, I probably should have gone with the single-phase/three-phase version.
I just received the 80mm mount from Carbide3D, and I"m impressed with it. I think I may go ahead with upgrading to a three-phase spindle/motor combo, however I want to know if it makes any sense to go with the following: 1.5kw VFD & 2.2kw spindle/motor.
I’m pretty sure I won’t need all the power of the 2.2kw spindle, and I definitely can’t handle its power requirement. Other than reduced max RPM, are there other factors to consider if undersizing the VFD or oversizing the motor?
As I said, ideally I’d have a 1.5kw motor with an ER20 nose, but how different from that goal would I get if I were to physically substitute a 2.2kw motor?
For even the most heavily modified Shapeoko, IMO there’s no reason to have a properly (output) rated HF spindle rated more than 800 Watts. The Chinese HF spindles all have questionable (if even available) specifications and are limited to to ER11 collets in that 110V compatible power range, However, the European manufacturers (which have realistic and published specifications), offer likely far superior HF spindles with ER20 collets. You could get a reasonably priced step up “transformer” like @WillAdams did recently to step up your 110-120 V to 220-240V if you can’t find a reasonably priced VFD that does that for you,
I recently replaced the Bosch 1617EVS “2.25 HP” router in my router table with a Porter Cable in an attempt to get better speed stability under load for some measurements - although it should have, it didn’t really help, but that’s another story (its “magnetic disk” apparently does nothing!) A real 800 Watt HF spindle would likely give you about the same power as one of those anyway.
@gmack I concur with the power requirement not needing to be very high for what a Shapeoko can do, but unfortunately the facts are:
Routers that accept >3/8" tools are larger than 80mm, making mounting them a side project;
3-Phase spindle noses generally increase with power.
If I could find any form factor power tool or spindle that fits into either a 65mm or 80mm bore, that also has an ER20 or 13mm tool capacity, that draws at or around, or preferably fewer than 15 amps, I would be in business.
This one is 1.5kW, air cooled, with an ER20 collet - and is priced at USD 165 (without VFD)
But as you can see it wouldn’t fit into an 80mm bore - mounting flange dimensions below
This one is made in China, but by a proper spindle company (real bearings etc).
I purchased direct from them (a 2.2kW water cooled unit - which I run on 240V AC) so can vouch for the quality. This company makes dozens of units - they may have an 80mm round one that is 1.5kW.
If you want I can send you their contact info - just let me know,
With the flat mounting surface you could either drill and tap the HDZ directly to mount it, or make a mounting plate (which would still probably want additional holes).
It seems most of the Italian manufacturers like rectangular spindles. Here’s one with an electric fan for cooling (quieter than shaft driven fan). Unlike Sorotec (at least last I checked), they sell and ship to the US.
