Help: What do I need to do to eliminate gaps around inlay using advanced v carve

How can I eliminate the gaps around my advanced v carve inlay?

I tried my first advanced v carve inlays yesterday. Both have gaps around the inlay. At first I tried a cheap 10.2 degree Spetool .25 mm tapered ball nose bit. When I got gaps around the inlay, I thought it might be the cheap bit not really being the angle it claimed or maybe being a ball nose (although virtually a point) was the issue. I re-generated the tool paths using a white side 60 degree v bit and still got gaps.

10.2 degree spetool:


60 degree whiteside:


For the pocket I used start 0" and max depth 0.2". For the inlay I used start depth of 1.9" and max 2.0"

Both were super tight to set in pocket. The gaps do not appear to be in a particular direction, e.g., high and right.

I would appreciate your thoughts on how to eliminated the gaps. Thanks!

The pocket corners look inconsistent, sometimes nice sharp corners and sometimes rounded. This combined with inconsistencies in the inlay widths, suggests the surfaces of your starting boards were not parallel with gantry movement. If you have not, try surfacing the boards on your CNC before pocketing or cutting inlays. Also, check if your design is symmetrical. If it is not perfectly, you may have turned your inlay relative to the pocket, adding to the poor fit.

Last, your pocket/inlay geometry is different from what I remember (my memory may be off). With your pocket start and depth, I would try an inlay start of 0.150 ( I think this is also how deep the inlay will seat into the pocket) and a max depth of 0.350. I think this would give a glue gap of 0.05 and leave a gap between your pocket board and inlay boards of 0.200 when the inlay and pocket are clamped together. Note: I could be way off here. Inlays confuse me and I stand corrected if necessary.

@Bozo, I appreciate your help. I can see what you’re saying about inconsistent corners. I will need to look more at design as well as tool paths to see what’s happening there.

Re flattening, I did flatten both the pocket and inlay material before running the carve. I could feel some ridges so I could use a re-tram; however, it was not excessive, and I was using 95% step over so it was worst case.

Since I clearly need to experiment more, I will try using different depths as you suggest and cut a cross section to see what the gaps look like.

Ultimately, I want to make an end grain cutting board like I see turning out beautifully. Glad I didn’t waste lots of time and wood right away. I figured I would need to dial v carving in but did both think the first go would be this bad!

Other ideas on fixing this are much appreciated!

Does the pocket itself look sharp and clean? From the second picture it looks like the edges of the female pocket are already somewhat wobbly (if that’s the correct word?), even when ignoring the inlay parts.
The machine needs to be mechanically sound to begin with, because inlays are not forgiving at all.

Regarding the inlay parts, on some of the pictures where the inlay shape looks correct overall but does not fully “fill” the pocket, it’s possible that you bottomed out the inlay in the pocket, so adjusting depths to leave an appropriate “glue/air gap” may fix that.

Things which will help here:

  • use stock which is finer grained and less subject to chipping out
  • ensure the machine is mechanically sound and cutting as expected
  • rework the V carvings so that the corners are more crisp by using overlapping V carvings
  • cheat the depth on things so that the V inlay is better able to fill the V pocket

Are you cutting the inlay w/ a backer and then facing it off? That will help as well.

I saw a thread on this recently. Try doing a search for inlays. It looked like some helpful information on how to do inlays.

This can not be correct. Maybe look at this post to help understand what the inlay depths should be. Using "Advanced VCarve" in Carbide Create 461 to make Inlays - #40 by bikerdan

Note, from Z zero to starting depth is what is inserted into the pocket and from starting depth to max depth should be the amount of space above the pocket that is left sticking out. So maybe try a start depth of 0.17 and a max depth of 0.25. Then sand the inlay sticking out flush with the base.

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@Julien, @WillAdams, @Richjaws, @SLabuta I appreciate your time and thoughts. Hopefully I can run some experiments based on your advice tomorrow or certainly this weekend. I’ll let you know how it goes and if better success will post results. Thanks!

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A few shortcuts to help determine your inlay start and max depth with a given pocket max depth in Carbide Create.

Pocket start =0
Pocket max depth = your choice but keep in mind this will be limited by the design and the bit used
Glue gap = your choice but keep it small ( SLabuta’s 0.030" is probably good)
Board gap ( air gap that remains between the pocket piece surface and the inlay piece surface when clamped together) = your choice but large enough for a band saw blade to fit if that is how you trim off the excess inlay

Given the above values:

Pocket max depth - glue gap = inlay start
Board gap + inlay start = inlay max depth

Note that the inlay start is the maximum thickness of the inlay which will be seated into the pocket. This is not the thickness of the inlay. The thickness of the inlay is variable and some sections may barely seat at all. These sections you risk losing when sanding the completed inlay. Also the glue gap is the maximum glue gap that will be present. Shallow inlay sections that seat into the pocket less than the inlay start value will have zero glue gap. Which makes me believe a glue gap is irrelevant for glue and actually just a fudge factor for unclean pockets which don’t fit the inlay perfectly.

Glue gap and board gap are not variables which are entered into Carbide Create. They are only for determining the inlay start and max depth above.

Cheers.

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Don’t beat yourself up too much Mitch, your first attempt is FAR better than mine was!
I did dozens and dozens of experiments before I was happy with my results.

My advice for what it’s worth:

Instead of using good wood, use MDF to experiment with, you will still know when the fit is good, even if it does not look pretty.

The tests only need to be small, say 4" square. When you have done each pocket / plug cut write on the back which tool you used, start depths etc. otherwise when you have lots you will lose track.

Stick with it! you will learn LOTS that you weren’t expecting along the way. When you think you are about there try using an Ikea bamboo chopping board instead of MDF. (Cheap).

If the bamboo works out ok then end grain will. It is much more forgiving than side grain.

Best of luck

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