I am Questioning everything now on 80MM and 65MM

I am questioning all right now should I have upgraded to the 80MM spindle or just stayed with the 65MM spindle?

I get it I am new and don’t understand the terms of feed rate or plunge. But I dont want to babysit a project for 5 hours when I know if I had a plunge router and a plexiglass temp plate I could cut and remove material/wood quicker.

I am not a sign maker or a vcrave at all

I am just trying to expand my knowledge, and I don’t buy cheap tools.
I have that as a luxury right now, but I am due to retire in less than 4 years from the federal Gov as law enforcement. But I want to have a hobby.

something to occupy my time and help me with PTSD.

wood working seems to help as I just started 5/2024

But I am frustrated with this machine and the lack of tools or bit support.

Should I have upgraded to the 80mm? just to deep cut or contour cut SLABs I can get that are 8/4?

OR Should I have stayed with the 65mm and got aftermarket longer bits that could do that?
I am questioning my spending now and this whole machine purchase truly.

I have a Pro 5 4x2 with the 65 mm VFD spindle for 1.5 years.
I am in the first stages of working with a 7.5 wide x 38 long x 3.75 deep piece of pine.

I am also looking at the 80 mm spindle.

Here is a screenshot of the model in Fusion

The tool #301 is a upcut flat end .25 Extended Jenny from Cadence.
The tool #1 is a downcut flat end .125 Downtown Jenny from Cadence.

The Face operations are to clear material. #301 ( 85 minutes )

The #301 Pocket and Contour paths are somewhat clearing but had to follow a curve and the Tool diameter will effect what it can get to. ( 7 hrs and 20 minutes )
( Note: I could have Face cleared 50% of a Pocket path volume if I had the 80mm spindle )

The #1 Pocket and Face paths are for detail and cleaning up. ( 4 hours ).

So the only component that an 80 mm spindle would directly help on is the Face operations.
If might help in the Pocket and Contour if there is room.

So the easy $ are in the Face operations, but that is a small percentage in this project.

For this project I could get maybe 2 hours back, but a bit more planning/paths.

You can make the same projects with both spindles.
Give yourself time to sort it out, there are a lot of ways to save/waste time.

It took me awhile to come off the career work life, and no one was shooting at me ( at least physically)

What kind of tools/‘bit support’ do you think are lacking? You can get 1/4" endmills that can cut fairly thick pieces of wood.
One example: LONG ENDMILL
And a longer example: 1/4" CARBIDE 1.500 LOC LONG 4 FLUTE END MILL 4" OAL

Carbide3D has some good general purpose tools, but they are just that. If you have unusual or specific needs, you should absolutely check out third party tool vendors. A 65mm spindle shouldn’t be a limiting factor for most people if you have a little patience. If time is money, then the equation might swing in the other direction.

2 Likes

If I was working with 8/4 or thicker I would have gone with the 80mm spindle. I chose to start with the 65mm spindle and learn with that. I can always upgrade if I need to. The longest bit I have now is 1.5” cut length, and I’m careful with it until my proficiency increases with the entire process.

The 1/4” bits are limiting the 65mm spindle to shallower cuts, that’s the trade off. If you’re cutting slabs for whatever reason that are 8/4 or even 6/4 routinely then you got the right spindle in my opinion. The 80mm and larger bits allow higher feed rates with larger diameter bits which typically reduces overall total cut time.

I have plenty of templates and 1/2” bit routers, I can now design and cut my own templates if indeed to use the bigger bits. I bought the 5 Pro due to its capabilities for accuracy and the large cut area that would make template cutting a real pain. Then I have this huge template to store, if it would even be used again? My 5 Pro lets me cut anything I can design and I don’t have to store a bunch of templates on the wall, now it’s stored on a tiny silicone chip that takes much less space.

Hang in there, its worth it, Woodworking and photography is when/where I get lost in my own little world.

So I am so new to wood working. I started with the hardest project of a 3D end grain cutting board on 6/2024 I learned a lot from that I upgraded to 220 grizzly equipment.

I did a craft show and trying to sell custom end grain cutting boards at 200-300 did not work for me at thecraft show in WV
instead of me wasting time on glue ups I thought CNC would be cheaper to take rough cut lumber and make things that would sale in a truly poor state

that is what I deal with

BUT i don’t want multiple hours of a machine running for 5-6 items in a day after I get home from work.

I need to see ROI. ON MACHINE AND WOOD…

Can you share the project that’s taking 5 hours to cut? I expect we can get that time down… significantly if it could also be done with a template :wink:

1 Like

If money isn’t an issue I’d go with the bigger spindle. I have the 65mm which I purchased last year just before the 80mm was available. While I have been very happy with the 65mm the bigger spindle opens up additional tooling options.

Tooling up should not be an issue. Multiple online vendors with very affordable tools to get started.

1 Like

The 80mm spindle verses the 65mm spindle comes down to a few different factors between the two. Both can do the same work as the other. The 80mm spindle isnt too much bigger then the 65mm, but that doesn’t hinder the spindle doing any of the normal cutting the 65mm does. The upsides to the 80mm spindle is that you have a wider range of tools that you can use because the collet sizes go up to 1/2" tool shank diameter instead of the 1/4" shank diameter the 65mm spindle limits up to.

The 65mm spindle is air cooled with an internal fan that spins on the shaft, which forces air thru the body of the spindle to cool it. The 80mm spindle has a water cooler line running to it and this water encompasses the inside body and drawing out building up heat fast and moves it to an external cooler. The 80mm spindle can hold bigger tools, as I stated above, thus allowing it to work harder and faster on many cuts because of tool rigidity is better.

Just because the 80mm spindle is larger then the 65mm, doesn’t mean it can’t do any V carving, pocketing, or contour carving, because it would not be able to get into the areas because of it’s size. It can do everything the 65mm spindle can do and more.

Much of the difference in price tag is the added parts to the 80mm spindle. We get a water cooler that is included in the purchase, along with the bracketing and plates to support and hold the bigger and a bit heavier spindle.

In my opinion, I would rather have a spindle with a larger tool capacity so I have the option to buy and use bigger tools, with the possibility of them having a longer cutter area, instead of being limited to 1/4" diameter shank/shaft, and if I was pushing the tool harder and I purchased an off brand tool, I could run the risk of bending the shank and throwing the center force of the tool off and possibly damaging my spindle, or machine.

I’m not saying the 65mm spindle is bad. It can do so much within it’s own limits. I have the 65mm spindle right now, but with me being a CNC metal machinist, I know the benefits of having a way to cool the spindle down faster so there is no damage to the bearings inside the spindle, during heat transfer of cutting.

1 Like

Jon,
I also started from Zero, never learned woodworking from somewhere else than from Youtube, broken tools, a lot of firewood, scratches, iodine and bandaid. I recommend to start slow and small, starting with a 5h project might be something where 22s before the end stock and bit breaks, destroys this and the next weekend.

For beginning IMHO a 65mm spindle is optimal, a router should be replaced, because they need maintenance (brushes need to be replaced), they brake much more frequently and the rotation speed cannot be controlled by the CNC controller. The 80mm spindle can drive 1/2 inch shaft router bits: it is my impression that a good friend, a carpenter, needs a stationary router machine for 1/2 inch bits to make kitchen cabinets, hundreds of feet per day he makes of panels, doors, etc.

That is not the main focus of a part-time CNC user.

It also is my impression that you make signs, probably from plastic? So in that case the feed rate -the speed the CNC moves the spindle+bit over and through the stock- must be as fast as possible to avoid melting, that could speed up your project also.

2nd: the speed and feed values in Carbide Create are very conservative, to avoid any accidents with unexperienced users. Carbide motion has the option to override the feed rate by 100%, use that and listen to the machine, as long as it still sings and does not cry yet one can go with that. If the chips turn to dust: change the settings, or check the sharpness of the bit. If the wood chips return back, and there is some smoke: emergency stop button, pray you have a fire extinguisher handy. Happens, and happened.

And: visit the pharmacy store and ask there for a very large dose of patience. And send me some, I am also in need of a lot of such a stuff.

2 Likes

Making end grain cutting boards is a challenge for an unexperienced woodworker. I made some, and learned to get the slabs to measure flatten them with the CNC, I do not have a planer (no place, don’t need it), went well. But was a lot of cutting, planing (with CNC), sanding, routing…, planing the end grain sides is a challenge itself since splinters like to break off, so I use to attach some slabs around the cutting boards with some clamps to get clean edges.

But: I got some from CIC workshop, a set of 1.7inch maple / 0.6 inch walnut for inlays: I bet such a piece of stock cannot be done any better, $100 per set. With a 1.5inch cutting board you don’t neee any other weapon in the kitchen: that thing is heavy enough to kill. However: these sets are smooth like a baby’s butt, I doubt one could get a piece of wood sanded that way with less than 30 minutes of work even with drum sanders. So I cannot recommend more to consider buying them for own cutting boards.

And don’t be disappointed: people always praise cutting boards, but if it comes really to spend money for local work of friends: they rather get a cheap thin plastic piece of crap from any Temu or what not.

1 Like

We are raised to think of things in a consumer mindset. We consume and throw away as fast as we buy almost. Things are made cheap and replaceable. So many think it is better to purchase cheap and toss when it breaks, even if purchasing many over the course of time. One feels better purchasing a $10 cutting board and then it breaking in a year or less, and then purchasing another $10 cutting board, instead of making a purchase that would last maybe 10 years. A once and done price scares people when the price is higher. Instead they feel better spending more then the once and done price over the course of many years.

Many think quantification for the here and now instant gratification instead of a bit of investment over some time and then buying. The issue with this consume and toss mindset is the amount of waste that is tossed into the landfills, and the amount of natural resources that is wasted each year to piles of rubble in the landfills. Not much recycling at all. Its all consume and toss.

For example; if posed the question if a person would take $750,000 in cash payout right now, or a penny a day doubled in 30 days, many would choose the $750,000 thinking it was larger, when in truth, a penny doubled for 30 days would be well over $5 million. Example being day one; 1 cent, day two 2 cents, day three 4 cents, day five 8 cents, and so on, for 30 days.

2 Likes

Some good resources on feeds and speeds:

In the past I’ve used:

1 Like

I compared the two in a video, maybe it will help?

2 Likes