I am a professional machinist, and I am considering getting a Shapeoko 3XL for my home shop to tinker with wood and plastic. Actually I think I have already settled on the Shapeoko 3XL, but strangely the spindle question is becoming a huge time suck.
I just want to roll onto a website and click buy, but no discussion I have seen includes a link to a currently available product.
I would prefer not to mess around with water cooling for now, and I don’t think I need power beyond 800W. More importantly, I only have access to 110V in the shop.
Can somebody link me to a specific product page that has an air-cooled 800W ER11 spindle along with a VFD - or whatever is compatible with the Shapeoko’s control, preferably in the US?
It might be worth you starting off with the Makita trim router, it’s a very simple to set up and use first tool and perfectly functional for many needs.
It’s quite usable on it’s own as a trim router later on if you decide that you want to go to a full spindle and VFD.
You may also find, once you’ve used the machine and figured out how you want to do dust collection etc. that you don’t like the constant noise of the trim router which is why a lot of people go to the water cooled spindle.
Thanks for the advice, although I have already decided that I do not want to use the trim router. I also do not want to waste any more time trying to “find” a spindle. I have to admit that I am perplexed that Carbide3D have absolutely no guidance on this topic.
For example, I don’t currently know what kind of modification I would need to do in order to fit an ER11 spindle in a Shapeoko 3XL, so I’m looking for somewhere that lays this out in detail 100% so I can make an informed decision. I have ZERO interest in purchasing a machine that will later surprise me with special needs. I would rather just buy everything in advance and assemble it.
Most people end up buying a G Penny on AliExpress, Amazon or eBay.
The main choices are
a smaller spindle, 65mm and ER11 collet, these are mostly 800W, that’s enough power for the Shapeoko in most people’s opinion. These run easily on a US style 110V outlet.
a larger 1.5kW or 2.2kW, 80mm with ER11 or ER20 collet. These typically want 230V into the VFD which is fine for people outside the US with 230V sockets as standard.
You should be aware that the Chinese spindles and VFDs can be a little challenging to install as you’ll end up wiring everything yourself.
You could also look at suppliers such as Mechatron who make what seem to be higher quality gear. You can also use a name brand VFD, Delta, ABB etc. if you prefer but pairing those with the spindle would be up to you.
To mount a spindle most people use the HDZ upgrade option. Whilst it is possible to use a 65mm adapter ring to mount 65mm spindle in the Z plus Z axis that doesn’t seem to be recommended.
It appears that the HDZ is now standard with new machines, however - again - Carbide3D isn’t making this easy to figure out. In the Shapeoko store description, they say that new machines come with Z plus, but your link leads to something called HDZ. They appear to be the same thing, BUT ARE THEY?
As to your main choices: I have a HARD LIMIT on 110V. If it doesn’t run on a 110V/15A circuit, I can’t use it. Again, I’m not looking for a lengthy discussion on a forum; I want a BUY link for a system that is guaranteed to be compatible. Mechatron seems to be the poster child for a waste of time, since I could not find a single purchase link anywhere, but a video I saw that featured one of their spindles seemed nice.
AGAIN, I don’t understand why Carbide3D isn’t all over this. Why do I have to spend 20 hours Googling this???
The Z Plus is not the same as the HDZ, it uses a leadscrew rather than a ballscrew so not quite as heavy duty. The HDZ is an upgrade to the Z plus. I agree that could be clearer on the store.
If you are on 110V then yes, you’re likely only going to be able to run 800W.
Most of the listings are with a 220V VFD but they are available with a 110V VFD as an option
This listing suggests contacting the vendor for the 110V option.
Those of us that have installed a VFD controlled spindle have all done it as an unsupported upgrade, some people have had quite a few issues, the cheap Chinese VFDs are made to a price. I think you have to start paying German money to get something home user grade with a proper spindle.
In your original post you said you wanted to limit to 800 Watt spindle. Well a Dewalt 611 router is rated for 7 AMPS, 7AMPS X 120V=840 Watts. The Makita is rated for 6.5 Amps, 6.5 Amps X 120VAC=780 Watts.
Now the Dewalt and the Makita may make more noise than a spindle but it is plug and play with no complexity. Both the Dewalt and Makita have multiple size collets available from elairecorp.com.
So as a professional machinist you know that a Shapeoko is not an industrial machine and will never be one no matter how many bells and whistles you put on it. The Dewalt sells for about $139.00 and the Makita around the same amount.
It is your money but a trim router in a Shapeoko XL will basically do everything a more expensive and complicated spindle will do and better because the money you save on the trim router can be spent on tooling. The right tools make a bigger difference IMHO than a spindle. You can always upgrade later if you see the incremental difference a spindle makes.
So in reality the Shapeoko is a great hobby machine. It is belt driven for 2 of the 3 axis and makes some great things, take a look in the gallery. What a Shapeoko XL is not is an industrial robust machine. Dont think I am putting the Shapeoko down but it is like comparing a Formula 1 race car to a Volkswagen Beetle. Both cars will take you to the grocery store and get groceries but there is a big difference in price, maintenance and total cost of ownership.
Thanks for your advice. I am indeed looking to outfit a hobby machine, but I don’t want to throw good money at a toy. I also don’t want to offend anyone here who gets the job done with these machines. A lot of folks make good money with them.
A lot of folks get into CNC as a hobby itself, and I am not really interested in that. I’ve programmed parts and set up machines that have put things into space, and I just want to make stuff out of wood and plastic at home - but I want to do it right.
You make a good case for maybe just going with the trim router at first, but separate from the technical realities of an $80 Home Depot special, the noise is really going to be a problem. I can’t just run a super loud power tool in my neighborhood, since the garage is just a glorified carport.
FWIW…
An air cooled spindle will make containing the dust particles more difficult. I am not a “Health nut” but after you spend some time cleaning dust from everything and in everything, computer, work area, lungs, you may reconsider and as you mention that you want input to prevent needing future upgrades, well…
As noted, the Z-Plus is the standard Z-axis now as noted at:
7/13/2020 - All machines come with the Z-Plus leadscrew Z axis. We no longer offer the belt drive Z.
The HDZ is an optional accessory.
FWIW, I share your concerns on wiring and compatibility — this was part of why I chose to go with what I hope will be the simpler mechanical adaptation of a Mafell Quick Change Spindle which should just plug into a 220V transformer which connects to my BitRunner which is in turn plugged into a Festool CT Midi — unfortunately my unit has been delayed until 9 February, but I’ll be using that time to design a dust shoe and refine the adapter plate I’ve drawn up.
If you want something easy, you should stick to what is supported by Carbide 3D. A VFD and spindle is not supported by Carbide 3D and will require you to come up with the parts and wiring yourself. It can be done but there is no definitive way to do it. I cut aluminum all day long with my trim router based machine. It is more than capable of wood and plastic. You will run into motion system limitations before you run into trim router limitations. If you are worried about noise as I was, build an enclosure with sound deadening in mind. The standard Z-Plus that comes with the machine is also more than sufficient for wood and plastic. If you want something that supports a spindle out of the box with a plug and play kit, go look at AVID CNC. I have one for work and its great. Very different price class though.
I’m used to a totally different scale here, and I just want what I have at home to be the best it can possibly be - but the machine is just a means to an end. I have literally zero interest in tinkering with the machine itself. I just want to tick the boxes: rigid, reliable, durable.
I am used to programming and machining CFRP molds from alloy steel, and turning high pressure valve components out of inconel and toughmet. Maybe I’m overthinking the Shapeoko.
Can I just buy an enclosure? I don’t have an existing wood shop at home.
BTW, FWIW, the X-Carve Pro seems to tick every single box except price. It’s in a completely different league and a tough pill to swallow. But wow!
The Shapeoko 3 is the best for rigidity you can buy in it’s price class. However, that does not mean that it is anywhere close to as rigid as the machines you are familiar with. Because of the belt drive and V-wheels, rigidity in my opinion is the primary limitation of the machine. That does not mean that the machine is bad, just that you need manage your expectations. It can do just about anything you want in wood, plastic and nonferrous metals as long as you use the appropriate feeds & speeds. I do not know of any available enclosures for the machine but not having a wood shop does not prevent you from building one. Both Lowes and Home Depot will cut down sheet goods for you if you buy from them. Combine some MDF, some 2x2 lumber, a hinges and latches, and maybe some plexi and you have a good enclosure. You can get sound deadening foam on amazon.
Machines in this price class make sacrifices to meet the price point. This means that some things are left up to you like work holding, enclosures, etc. Not a lot of people who buy these machines will go out and buy a $500 enclosure, hence the lack of pre-made options. For how much the Shapeoko 3 costs, it does quite well with your 3 requirements. The only real issue I had with my machine is EMI related disconnects. I worked with support and was able to resolve it. It was an inconsistent problem and they worked with me over many weeks to resolve it.
As for the X-Carve Pro, it does not appear to be as rigid as the equivalent Shapeoko Pro to me. I don’t have either but that is the impression I get from all the pictures I have seen
You typically will want to make your own enclosure to suit your space (ceiling height, table dimensions, etc).
If you wanted a prebuilt version, then the 80/20 enclosure that others have done is Probably as close as you are going to get to prebuilt. I’m sure they would be willing to send you the parts order list and the dimensions if you want to go down that route.
I’m not even a month into my ownership of a Shapeoko and I have now redesigned my enclosure 12 times. My redesign yesterday was when I realised that I need to allow an extra 4.5 inches at the front of the machine sweepy. So glad I caught that before building.
@robgrz You should probably update the dimensions of the Shapeoko Pro to include the additional Y inches required for sweepy 2.0 considered it is included accessory
David,
As a new user (month or so in) I can tell you from my experience depending on whether or not you do dust collection the router likely isn’t your noise offender. We’re still running more of a temporary setup but our shop vac is likely 20 decibels louder then the router. It’s loud enough that ear protection is a necessity, but with the vac off the router is pretty quiet.
Also if you’re looking for something full turnkey and isn’t somewhat a project, not 100% sure this is the option best for you. As others have said in this forum the shapeoko is a project in itself and if you’re not interested in working on “it” there might be better options out there for you.