I’ve been waiting for the 1st of July to buy my 3rd CNC.
Just for the records, I have a Shapeoko 3XXL with the HDZ, 2.2 k.watt water cooled spindle & VFD. Laguna iQ w. 2.2 k.watt water cooled spindle.
I spent the whole day looking at Shapeoko HDM & the new 3rd gen Stepcraft D600.
At the end of the day I purchased the D600 with m1000 spindle and the AutoTool Changer.
The only disappointment is the thank you for your order email. From this email, and wasn’t directly from it, I found out that my order has 6to8 weeks to be shipped.
I’m not going to sleep tonight before I decide to cancel my tools today order and get the SO HDM. Or, find away to turn off the new CNC expecting part of my brain for 8 weeks.
I looked up the Stepcraft D600 and with the tool changer and other required accessories the cart just kept going up and up. I suppose having the tool changer is important if you are a production shop. I suppose you are a production shop with 3 cnc machines. WOW what a price tag. I know the HDM has a steep price tag as well but my beer budget cannot afford the Champale budgets for the HDM and D600. I did not say Champagne budget because those type machines start at $10,000.00 and go straight up.
Good luck with whatever you pick in the end.
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My order total after the 10% off, 4th of July sale, was under $5K.
After spending a sleepless night last night, I decided to cancel my tools today order and purchase the Shapeoko HDM.
But before I place my HDM order, I have a question for Mr. Will. Adams. A while back when I purchased the HDZ one week after buying my Shapeoko 3 XXL, Carbide 3D changed the design of the HDZ while my unit was being shipped to me. I probably received the last production unit of the original HDZ with the stepper motor is placed on top and outside. The newer version that was announced a few days after my order, shortened the height of the HDZ by placing the stepper motor inside the unit.
Mr. Adams, please answer 2 questions for me.
1- Can you assure me there will be no change in the HDM for at least 2 months after I place my order.
2- Can you please confirm that a larger unit will not added shortly after I place my order, as I’d love to get a larger HDM.
I am not in a position to answer such questions — I just do some tech support and kibbitz on the forums, no involvement in product development (and when I do test, it’s matter of confidentiality not to divulge any private information). While I know we are working on a larger machine, I don’t know the specifics of the timeline.
Perhaps @Luke could speak to this.
What I can note is that we’ve had a few folks come to the Shapeoko who had formerly owned Stepcraft machines, and all have been quite pleased w/ their purchase of a Carbide 3D machine.
Please write in to support@carbide3d.com for an official answer.
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I disappeared for almost 2 years, and when I come back, you are …… still you. Precise answers that satisfy any person regardless of all that apply and all that don’t in that person.
You’re 100% right about Shapeoko customer satisfaction, and I’m one of these customers.
The only reason I picked the Stepcraft was the ATC. I don’t think I will be able to add an iso30 er32 ATC Spindle to the HDM for under $1,500.
@Luke if you happen to glance at this page, I’d love your inputs, please.
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I asked similar questions when I ordered my HDM. I was ready to place my order as soon as pre orders went live but I didn’t necessarily want a first run machine and I didn’t like paying in full for a machine with a 4 month lead time. Mine is still very low on the production schedule and I’ve noticed subtle revisions from test units. Just like with anything, there will always be a new better thing. I wouldn’t expect the HDM price to come down any when the HDM XL releases, rather the larger machine will just have extended travel but a bit and the cost will reflect that. The HDM really hits a sweet spot that not much else can compete with. C3D customer support and community support is definitely top notch.
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An automatic tool change spindle is a big investment/commitment — needs a compressor, and takes up working area, and one needs to have one tool holder for each tool station, which really adds up.
I wound up getting a quick change tool setup instead:
(though I didn’t get the nifty PV auto-on/off and speed control, instead use a BitRunner for on/off and try to set up my files so that all cuts are at the same speed)
which I don’t push hard — just run at the default speeds — still pricey, the only reason I could justify it is I do a lot of test cuts and there were some days where I felt as if I was spending more time wrenching than cutting.
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That spindle beside its big name, is not really a good atc spindle.
Look at This One and that is a complete kit with 6 tool count. You can define your kit as you want it.
I didn’t describe it as an ATC spindle — it’s a convenient quick change mechanism which I’ve found to work well.
The link you sent is to a shopping cart which other folks won’t have access to.
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I’m unsure on the question, but also unsure we’re comparing apples to apples here.
The D600 is a very nice machine but comparable performance wise to a Shapeoko.
From an ATC I thought the only ones you can use on one is one of these - I’ve actually got one of these on my desk in parts and it’s pretty ‘basic’ in the sense it doesn’t even use DAC bearings and is SK15 I think. Fine for wood, but I can’t see the being production shop ready.
You can get some much beefier ATC units - like the S30 atc which is much more suited to a machine like the ATC. It comes with a price tag to match.
I have used a couple of cheap china brand ATC’s - the cheaper of the two (100mm, 24k, 3kw, bt30) is only suited to metal work due to the bearing array.
Another one is a (80mm, 40k rpm, 2,5k iso20) is great but but with great speed comes great responsibility.
In all cases I’d want an enclosure on any machine with an ATC… first hand experience of a tool holder being pulled out.
Technically any of the above ATC’s could be fitted to a HDM - but it’s not something we support with the CM controller at this point in time.
To answer these questions:
1- Can you assure me there will be no change in the HDM for at least 2 months after I place my order - were not planning any changes at this time
2- Can you please confirm that a larger unit will not added shortly after I place my order, as I’d love to get a larger HDM. We’re not looking to deploy a larger HDM at this point - shipping and ground transport is the problem here.
If we did do a larger HDM at some point - and that is an if it would be more expensive and the current machine will not get any cheaper. With the world what it is, we have seen costs of materials, parts, labour and shipping jump significantly and steadily.
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My bad, I’m loosing it in the post editor “forgot how to add an image or attach a file”
but a complete S30 Turnkey Package for my Laguna iQ which has 6 count tool changer, cost me $4,295 about a year ago. @Luke I’m assuming it will be around the same amount for the HDM plus the cost of upgrading/adding the ATC to the HDM.
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