Just to give everyone an up date. They sent out a AC filter, A different USB Isolator, New brushes , and a ground cable. Still having disconnect issues. I love how Will closed the last thread when there is still issues of disconnect problem’s.
https://community.carbide3d.com/t/the-dreaded-disconnect-static-electricity/28377
Have you tried a different laptop or desktop computer? Regardless of ESD or a different type of issue when you get this deep in it’s time to start eliminating variables.
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Just so everyone knows, I was having some random disconnect issues too and the Carbide Support team has been AMAZING. I think mine is fixed with the USB isolator and switching to a much newer PC. Give these guys a chance to help fix this random issue.
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Also, topics close automatically after 1 month of inactivity, so it wasn’t anything someone did to you on purpose…
For the record i am not a fan of that either (I think they should stay open at least 6 months and then close after a month of inactivity), it happens to any thread, so don’t take it personally…
What kind of wood are cutting when having those issues?
For example, I cannot cut acacia without disconnects. Everything else has worked so far…
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Red Oak and have tried several different PCS . If it has to do with wood species I have an issue with that not being disclosed by C3D. Also I am getting tired of the “let’s try this now” attitude ether a product works or it doesn’t. This has been going on for 8 months now and everytime C3D wants to try something new I have to wait 2 ro 3 day to get the part, use my time to install ,then test. All this takes time and materials that costs money. When you pay 2k for something you expect it to work.
I’m sorry that it such a big issue in your case.
I guess I am not able to add anything that you didn’t try yet, I’m not an electronics technician either.
But this whole thing seems so complex, including the conductivity of the wood dust, that depends on the type of wood, connections to your PC and probably even the power lines in your shop (my naiv view on this).
I can only say what worked for me: Ignoring acacia (i.e. wood that produces fine dust), attaching the hose of the shop vac to ground and reducing feeds and speeds.
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While certain materials are more likely to cause EMI, with a properly grounded vacuum setup, a machine ought to be able to cut any of them.
The other thread was closed because it was repetitive and you were supposed to be working things out with folks on support and there wasn’t anything helpful being said.
Your ticket is still open and has been escalated and will be responded to once folks get back in the office Monday after the holiday during Chicago–California business hours.
EMI USB disconnects always come down to:
- vacuum grounding — if you have electrical continuity from the body of the router, through the dust shoe and vacuum hose, and properly to ground either at the vacuum or the same ground point as the vacuum and the other electrical connections
- humidity — during the winter some folks have found just spritzing a bit of water on stock or wiping it and the working area down w/ a damp rag before cutting increases the relative humidity enough to allow things to work
- worn or bad carbon brushes — there have been a couple of instances where the carbon brushes in the router installed at the factory had very small and hard-to-detect cracks which increased sparking — replacing them with one of the two spare pairs is a quick, easy check. There was one customer who swore that they fixed their disconnect problem by switching to a DeWalt DWP611, but I think they were a died-in-the-wool DeWalt fan and just wanted an excuse to color-coordinate
- heavy load on the same circuit — I have an older house, so when cutting outside on my deck have to use a longer extension cord so as to not use the circuit the refrigerator is on
- faulty electronics — if everything else checks out, then it may be decided that we’ll send you a replacement control board — that’s the usual step if a USB isolator doesn’t work
and of course, there was the one instance where it turned out it was a faulty transformer causing electric problems on the entire street — all of which I’m pretty sure has been noted before, so we are getting repetitive once again.
For a test cut, I’d suggest just surfacing off a board or a piece of PVC — it leaves you with usable stock (albeit a bit thinner and you should alternate sides) — when you’re feeling inclined to be patient, I’d suggest trying again systematically:
- run the machine on an air cut
- run the machine on an air cut w/ the trim router running — might be worth sourcing a Makita RT0701 to try at this step
- do a surfacing cut as a test w/o vacuum collection
- lastly introduce dust collection, but run an extension cord to a different outlet for both the vacuum and the router
I will leave this ticket open in the hope that someone has some further suggestion which may help.
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Will thank you for the reply but i have tried everything you have mentioned plus
| | arranged the AC cable for the spindle (trim router) so that it doesn’t cross or be near any of the other cables. |
|---|---|
| | if you’re using a laptop, ensure that it is plugged in, preferably to a grounded outlet using a 3 prong plug if possible. DONE |
| | tried MS Surface, Laptop, and a brand new $1100 PC bought just for the shapoko. |
| | directly connect the machine using a shorter than 6 foot USB cable. |
| | has toroid’s on each end of USB Cable |
| | Using powered USB Hub |
| | tried a different USB port |
| | switched from USB3 to |
| | made sure that the cable isn’t being jostled or disturbed |
| | spindle (trim router) power cable does have a toroid |
| | new carbon brushes |
| | if possible, connect the spindle (trim router) and the machine through a different circuit |
| | new spindle (DWP611) C3D spindle last night had the bit come lose, break, and strip the threads on the shaft. |
| | using a surge protector |
| | using a UPS |
| | check the ambient humidity 35% added humidifier and got up to 40% |
| | dust hose grounded inside, outside and using ESD protected hose. |
| | Tried 2 USB isolators sent by C3D |
| | Tried new control board sent by C3D |
| | Tried new power supply sent by C3D |
| | Tried A/C line filter sent by C3D |
| | Attach ground wire sent by C3D |
| | Grounded everything from router base all the way back to the control board |
| | Tried machine in different part of shop |
| | Tried machine in different building |
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If anyone has any other suggestions please please make them. I will pics of my setup later.
Thinking outside the melon…
You recently mentioned that tapping the USB cable where it joined the controller caused it to stop when running an air-only test. I this repeatable, and does it happen if you are wearing an antistatic wrist band thingy? ( which I admit is not likely something most people will have lying around. )
If it is repeatable, then is it possible vibration is the issue here and not static? Can you try taping or puttying or even supergluing the USB cables in place so they can’t move at all?
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That’s one of the reasons why I wanted to know if a different machine was tried. Not just the electronics, but the ports, but sounds like different ports as well as different cables have been tried. If the issue is stemming from the port on the shapeoko electronics then it still can’t be ruled out, but it sounds like the other end is probably okay.
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When you moved the machine, how far was it moved? Would it be an option to relocate it to some locale w/ a completely different electrical supply? Do you or a friend have a generator or UPS which could power the machine temporarily?
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I replaced the stock wiring with 4 conductor 18awg shielded with drain wire cables for the steppers
and 2 conductor 22awg shielded with drain wire for the switches.
No disconnects since then. I have tried to get it to disconnect by shutting the vac off during cuts, no disconnect.
Tried running the router to full speed before shutting off, no disconnects.
a side benefit to replacing the wires, my steppers remain very cool and the machine sounds much smoother when rapid moves are made.
so, rewiring the machine did it for me, no other mods made other than keeping my router cable away from other wiring…oh, I did wrap my vac hose with copper and grounded that to a steel heat duct close by.
Guess I should add, … my shapeoko is in the basement, avg temp 63f, present humidity around 30%, cut a cribbage board last night, no disconnects…
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At the risk of beating a dead horse. Can you describe what happens and what you are doing when it happens. The type of carving and the programs you created your G-Code with? Just to eliminate the possibility of bad code.
Static is simple. It is caused when there is friction between two dissimilar materials. The material you’re carving can effect static build up in two ways. The harder the material, the more friction is created. The dryer the material is the easier static can build. With proper grounding and a moisture level of 35% it should be nearly impossible for enough static to build up. The ground being the drain and the moisture level reducing the possibility. The vacuum hose is a static generator with air and wood particles rushing past the surface of the plastic hose. Provided that the hose is grounded you should be fairly safe from disconnects. I have seen some people wrap their hose with bare copper, and some run a piece of bare copper inside their hose. But it sounds like you have that all taken care of.
That being the case the issue has to lie somewhere else. The two most likely culprits are either a faulty router or a bad component on the control board. The first step in troubleshooting those would be to ensure that they are both clean and free of dust and debris and that the cords are in good condition with no nicks, cuts, or breaks.
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I use vectric vcarve pro and carbide create, profile and pocket tool paths both cause issues.
I am also using a new router DPW611 due to the fact my bit on my CC router came loose and destroyed the threads on the CC router. Still disconnects.
Will - I currently have a UPS hooked up and tried my generator no help.
MindlessCorpse - I understand what you are saying about re-wiring and that would be an easy thing for me todo as I am a semiconductor failure analysis engineer which makes my a little sensitive to the “It should be more stable then this” argument.
We should not have to work this hard to make a product work. If I wanted to do this much troubleshooting I would have built one form scratch. The idea was that I would buy off the shelve and save sometime. That ended up not being the case.
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I completely understand your frustration at the “small” list of things that will need corrected.
I also understand the bit about having to spend hours and materials troubleshooting and addressing the issues that become obvious.
But, it is what it is…
If you can overcome the issues and set the machine up proper you will find it is a fairly accurate machine.
No speed demon by any means, but I will trade off speed for decent accuracy any day of the week. just my nature.
I feel your pain bud, I was at a similar point to you and I ended up buying/building a new controller.
To be fair they were helpful to me and EMI is tricky, but I would really like to see a design change that puts this to bed.
If I were you I’d buy a Gecko G540 ($269), a Cncdrive UC100 ($110) a 10a 48v power supply ($99) a uccnc license ($60) and be happy for the rest of your days.
I understand the added cost sucks, but I got to the point where I just wanted to use my machine and not have it disconnect. It hasn’t. Once.
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Yep that is were I am at. You are about the 6th person to tell me the same thing.
From all that you have described, and all you have done to remedy the issue, it really sounds like it is a vibrational disconnect, not a static one…
The blue Loctite putty (Fun-Tak) is not conductive, and a tiny tiny tiny strip of it applied to the longest flat side of the squarish usb plug could add some pressure to the connection (at the controller board) to keep it from wiggling, might be worth a try. If you do try this, remember to use a smaller amount than you think will work, you can always add more but too much may deform the socket/connector pins…
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