New to CNC, got a lot to learn. I was contemplating a entry level machine for years. So after years of comparing machines ranging from 2k to 15k. I decided on the Shapeoko XXL CNC Router Kit with the HDZ, And with plans to upgrade it with a water cooled spindle. So my question how large of a spindle will this handle? 2.2KW ? or smaller? I see that there are several that some have gone with the 2.2kw and some that have gone with the 1.5kw. So form your prospective what would be the better choice and why. Just looking for opinions.
It depends on what you are going to use the XXL for depends on what you need. On the Carbide3d site under the HDZ they very clearly say the HDZ is more than most need. That said I will not tell you how to spend your money but if you have no experience with a CNC Router start with the stock setup and build up to the point that you need to upgrade. Most never need to modify their Shapeoko to get great results. But again I dont want to tell you how to spend your money but here is the advise I have given before:
The CNC Router is only about the first third of a budget for this hobby.
The router bits, calipers, sanders, finishing supplies, wood etc are the second third of your budget.
Software can be another one third of your overall budget. You can get a free Fusion 360 startup license, you can buy various Vetric levels up to $1500 down to $150. There are others both pay and free but you get what you pay for.
Aside from the financial aspect of CNC Routing is a commitment to the time required to learn the physical part of the CNC Router, the steep learning curve of the software, the time to watch learning material on the internet and the finally the perseverance to go through the process and produce useful and/or functional objects.
So my advise is to start with the basics, master that and then move on to bigger and better things like the HDZ, spindles and other upgrades like steel belted belts, linear bearing rails and so forth and so on.
I just recommend you start with baby steps, learn how to crawl, then walk, then run, then chew bubble gum and walk at the same time. If you choose to run first it leads to disappointment as many have found when they did not dedicate the time and energy to learn the craft. Many CNC Routers are sitting in garages and basements gathering dust and the āWhy did you spend so much money on that thingā from your significant other.
What @gdon_2003 said.
Installing a spindle on day 1 may be a little too much to take, you will have many other interesting things to think about while assembling the Shapeoko and learning CNC. Keep the spindle upgrade as a later gift to yourself!.
Now the HDZ, in my opinion that was a good call if your budget allowed it, since it does not add complexity in the learning process, and youāll be ready for that heavy 2.2kw spindle down to road.
Julien your comment is spot on. After I/We wear out a trim router the next upgrade would be the spindle. I have seen a few of your posts, and that 2.2 is really large. What modifications did you need to make to the machine to support it? just looking to the future.
Other than the HDZ to support the weight of a 2.2kW spindle, no other upgrades to the Shapeoko itself are necessary. The spindle will require an external VFD, and the VFD needs to get a PWM signal but that is readily available on Shapeoko controller board. My machine happens to have other mods, but they are unrelated to the spindle (and most of them are overkill)
Is there a huge difference in the 110 Volt and the 220 Volt 2.2kw spindle? I do not have access to 220 in my current shop, but will be adding it in my new shop. If the performance is minimal, the 110 (water cooled) would be the way Iām leaning. If there is substantial improvement with the 220, I will wait until the new shop is wired. Thoughts?
I looked into the same thing when I was buying a spindle. I decided to go with a 110V service simply because the specs of the 110V kits met or exceeded everything I needed. My advice, start with a list of what you want it to be able to do(HP,Torque,RPM rangeā¦) then find a spindle that meets those requirements. Especially true if you have options for what service you can drop to it.
@Grumpy Before a spindle Iād recommend a touch probe, and if you see yourself needing multiple tools on one job then a Bit Setter is also a āmustā. Just my opinion but the time/headache those two things have saved me, is more than worth the price.
EDIT: And dust collection, I for one am still waiting a sweepy restockā¦
OK, I jumped off the deep end. Got the G-Penny 2.2 kw water cooled version.
SMH, man I just couldnāt wait. Soā¦now Iām running temp 220 to my old shop. Looks to be the same setup as @Julien except for the ceramic bearings and @Griff. Guess Iāll be pouring over all the forums for the next two weeks checking PID setup and everything else my brain will run with for two weeks.
@Grumpy Iāll let you know what pains I encounter. lol And I agree with @TheSilentEngineer, touch probes and Bitsetter is a must and a game changer.
VFD Parameters (Huanyang model) is the place you need to goā¦ More than enough reading to keep you dangerous! The VFDs are mostly the same, youāll need to tweak some settings for 220, and spindle specs- which you should be able to get.
@Julien, just curious on your coolant lines. The kit that comes with the G-Penny spindle says 5mm, but the coolant pump that come in the kit says 4 or 6 mm output. What size lines did you end up having to get?!?
I initially used the ones that came with the kit (canāt remember their precise dimension), right now I have replaced them with more flexible silicone ones that are 8mm outer diameter, 6mm inner diameter.
Has anyone figured out a way to use a bit setter while also setting RPM with the Shapeoko board? Iām guessing this is possible with software other than CM. recommendations?
Did you maybe mean āBitRunnerā not BitSetter ?
If so:
I do use a BitRunner and spindle RPM control simultaneously off the (single) PWM signal. Just wired both in a Y connection, works fine. There is no dependency with the software used, both the BitRunner and the VFD will react based on the PWM signal, which gets generated at the correct frequency based on the RPM value in the G-code (and even Carbide Create generates RPM values in G-code by default, so no change there either). My $30 is set to 24000 (max RPM of my spindle), and with that setting the BitRunner will activate at any RPM value above 9000 RPM or so.
If not: BitSetter uses the Probe input on the controller (via the splitter board if you have one of those), while setting RPM affects the PWM output signal, so those are two independent things, no reason to not be able to use both simultaneously.
Or maybe I misunderstood your question completely ?
Yeah, its really a software issue I think. I am talking about the bit setter. When running carbide motion, after you start a program (with the bit setter enabled) the first thing that happens is tool touch off. This is an issue when the spindle has already started rotating.
That shouldnāt happen when the spindle is controlled from the PWM signal, because in the G-code that Carbide Create generates, the M3 command that starts the spindle is placed after the M6 command for tool change that (I think) triggers the whole bitSetter probing sequence.
Do you see the spindle starting before that? Donāt you get the spindle start prompt ? what CAM software are you using?
Well you are most likely right. I had quickly tried to set up spindle control when I first set up my spindle and VFD so I probably had messed up some settings. I didnāt have time at that point to figure it out so I went back to manual control. I have been looking around the forums today and thought I would give it another try. The results so far have not been greatā¦
I have set up the VFD the same as you had in your post on this:
Vi to Shapeoko PWM
ACM to Shapeoko GRD
DCM to FOR
I also moved the Jumper pin from VR to VI
The only settings that are different from yours on the VFD are related to my Spindle being 110v, 1500kw
When I turn the VFD on, the spindle starts immediately, and I have no control with m3 through CM.
I did change $30 to 24000 as well.
I am not seeing 5v between GRD and PWM while my test program runs at the VFD or on The Shapeoko board. So I am guessing that may be my problem?
I have the v2.4e board so the PWM is labeled. Is there another PWM on the board I can try?
Thanks for the details. To find out whatās wrong I recommend doing two things, in that order:
disconnect the PWM signal from the VFD, and use a voltmeter to check voltage at the output of the Shapeoko controller:
when you turn on the Shapeoko, the voltage should be close to zero volts.
double check you have $30=24000 and $31=0
Home the machine and then send āM3S12000ā (without the quotes) using the MDI tab: you should now read around 2.5V on the PWM output (measure at the leads you just unconnected from the VFD)
you can also check that you read close to 5V if you send āM3S24000ā
If you donāt read 2.5V, then there is something wrong in the wiring of the PWM. There are three places where you can get the PWM signal on a 2.4e controller board (check out this chapter of the ebook), so you may want to try an alternate from what you are currently using. I have been known to mess up solder joints really bad, it can happen.
Once you have verified that the PWM signal is properly generated by the Shapeoko controller, proceed to debug the VFD setup. We had a similar case a few months ago of someone who had the spindle starting upon power-up regardless of the PWM, and it turned out to be something wrong in the VFD parameters (it almost always isā¦but there are so many of them that itās not so easy to figure it out). I would recommend to make a note of your current settings (all of themā¦tedious, I know), and then proceed to do a factory reset (on my Huanyang VFD this is done by setting PD013 to ā8ā), and then re-apply your changes, this way youāll be sure what they are at the moment you do the test. If you still have manual control of the RPM from the dial knob on the VFD, then something is not setup correctly to have the VFD use the PWM as the input signal (it usually boils down to setting PD001 and PD002 to 1, but since you followed the Huanyang VFD params thread I created you will already have done that)
I know itās a bit maddening when you think you have it set exactly like it should be, but if you are anything like me then it could be a misfit parameter that was altered during one of your tests, and not reset to a proper value. That of the VR/VI jumper, but you already checked that so thatās not it.
